Gary James' Interview With Allan Fraser Of
Fraser And DeBolt



They met at the Mariposa Folk Festival in 1968. Just one year later, 1969, they were performing together, and their travels took them to New York City where they opened the show for Tom Paxton at the Fillmore East. It wasn't long after, Columbia Records signed them to a recording contract. They toured the U.S. and Canada. By 1974, they were no more. We are talking about the duo, Fraser And DeBolt. A Canadian music publication by the name of The Record wrote, "Fraser And DeBolt were the greatest Canadian band never to have made it." Why would that be? What happened? Allan Fraser of Fraser And DeBolt spoke with us about the history of the duo.

Q - Allan, this comment by The Record really caught my eye: "Fraser And DeBolt were the greatest Canadian band never to have made it."

A - (laughs)

Q - You and Daisy DeBolt were a duo. Did you travel with a band as well?

A - We did some work with a band. The second album with Columbia Records was a band effort, but they were all studio musicians from Toronto. But we played with local musicians when we could. We didn't usually play with a band. We were on this Weintraub coffee house circuit in the States, which was found in The Bitter End Cafe in New York on Bleeker Street. They held auditions and showcases. Both Daisy DeBolt and I had auditioned for that separately and spent a couple of years with other people, both as duos. She worked with another guy and they called themselves Toronto Elevator, and I had a friend from high school and we had worked together for four or five years. We had both auditioned as two different duos at two different times for the Weintraub circuit and we had both played that Weintraub circuit. You'd go to a college campus. I think the first one was we did was Illinois. You would spend a few nights there, at least four or five nights, and they'd put you up in a student dorm or motel. You'd play every night and then travel to the next booking, booked by the Weintraub circuit. Fred Weintraub was the owner of The Bitter End in New York. It was called the Weintraub circuit 'cause the offices were in his place of business. We had so much work through the Weintraub circuit. So, we were on the road four or five weeks at a time. We'd come back, have a little rest, and go and do as much more as we wanted really. So, that was our training ground. So, both Daisy and I did it with other partners and then both groups broke up and we were both available. So, we both hooked up and did the Weintraub circuit for another three years. We were really well trained. When we played some university in New York, the manager of Ravi Sharkar and Fairport Convention and Yo-Yo Ma, a guy by the name of Jay Hoffman, J.K. Hoffman Associates, came and saw us play at The Bitter End. We just did an open mic. She went back and reported to her manager, who eventually became our manager. He called us when we were on the Weintraub tour and said he wanted to showcase us with Tom Paxton at the Fillmore East. My friend told me he thought that J.K. Hoffman had just picked us up a contract to get us, to secure us for Columbia Records. I don't know if that's true. It seemed like it. He had contacted me, but nothing was happening. We couldn't get working papers. DeBolt had been in a marijuana bust in the '60s and she'd been given a full pardon, but I don't know if that's why we were having trouble getting our working papers. We did eventually get working papers, temporary visas, but that was always a concern.

Q - Getting back to this comment made by The Record, whose fault was is that you didn't get the recognition you deserve? Should we blame Columbia Records? Should we blame your management?

A - I really don't know. It's as complex as any event in one's life. It's also subjective. You know, life has been good. I think the main problem was that we were Canadian. We don't have an American grandparent. The rules allow that if your parent was American, either parent, you have a Green Card. I think even a grandparent. I'm not sure about that. But if you're strictly Canadian, if both parents were Canadian, it was hard, and now it's ridiculous I think. I think it's difficult to work in the American market if you're a pure Canadian as it were. So, I think that was the main problem.

Q - Did you make any money playing that coffee house circuit? Touring was expensive even then.

A - We played a couple of short tours for each album we did. I think Columbia actually ended up setting up the work 'cause our manager was unable to get us working papers. It was always in process. It was a real impediment to the promotion process. Our A&R guy was a guy named Bob De Vera. That's another regret I have. I've been trying to identify my regrets in life at this point. That's one of them. He wanted to manage me after Fraser And DeBolt broke up and Columbia had terminated our contract. We were negotiating with him for management. He built the career of Weather Report before they went to a larger agency. He built them up to a point where they were a going concern. He had worked with Motown Records and Jazz labels in Rhode Island. He's from Rhode Island, but he had worked in Chicago with all the top R&B artists. He was our A&R guy. I learned so much from him. He was my mentor. I really wish I had worked with him. I tried to negotiate a deal with him. His opening negotiation was really to his advantage. I showed it to a negotiator and he advised me not to sign it. So, when I talked to Bob, he said, "Well Allan, when you're negotiating you come in hard. You come in with everything you want and everything to your advantage, but then it's negotiable." But I never made it to a counter offer. So, I missed the opportunity to work more closely with Bob De Vera. It would've been great. He was great to work with.

Q - You opened for Tom Paxton at the Fillmore East. What was that gig like for you and Daisy?

A - It was great. The Fillmore East was just loaded with atmosphere. The Folk boom was not over. Tom Paxton was known, but a bit passe. But J.K. Hoffman had worked with Tom Paxton too. He was a friend of Bill Graham (owner of the Fillmore East), so he was able to place us in there to give us a perfect showcase. But it was fantastic. A great, big stage. Funky though. The wings and the dressing rooms were all un-renovated. It was just loaded with atmosphere. It was great. The sound was terrific. Great speakers and high quality microphones. It was a fantastic experience.

Q - Besides Tom Paxton, who else did you share the bill with?

A - We did a week with Eric Anderson. We played The Troubadour for a whole week with Mason Williams. It was a double bill. We worked with Lenny Breau, the guitarist. Lenn Breau I think was in love with Daisy DeBolt. She was taking guitar lessons from him when he was living in Winnipeg. He was from Lewiston, Maine originally. He had lived in Winnipeg and they met there. They were good friends. I actually got to do a concert with Lenny Breau with Daisy. We had a chance to do a whole tour through the coast of Canada with Lenny Breau, but then the promoter recommended against it because he would have to have a nurse maid with him. He was a junkie. So, he had to have somebody there to take care of him and make sure he stayed out of trouble 24/7 for probably two or three weeks.

Q - Do you recall seeing anyone like Linda Ronstadt or Jackson Browne at the Troubadour, watching you perform?

A - I don't really know. I didn't meet any of these lager luminaries, but it's true they were everywhere. I don't remember seeing any of them or hearing they were in the audience.

Q - Why did you and Daisy part ways in 1974?

A - I fell in love with someone else. We were growing in different directions. We were both seeing other people. In '74 we did a show in Poland. We represented Canada. An international song festival. That was televised by one of the two Russian television networks at the time. So, it was broadcast to seventeen million people all throughout the Iron Curtain countries, the Eastern Block countries. That was '74. I think we were just about broken up at that point. I was living with someone else. We still did gigs right up until the turn of the century, but it wasn't our primary focus. There wasn't a whole lot of demand. We did two double bills with John Prine at the University of Toronto and the University of Ottawa. That was pretty neat.

Q - What did you do after the two of you split?

A - I went into sales for thirty-five years. I had three kids and lived in Quebec most of my life. I sold real estate in the country, outside of Montreal. Antique houses. It was really fun actually. My wife was a singer/songwriter as well. She worked with Daisy for two or three years as Daisy's vocalist. She hired the woman I was with. I supported that.

© Gary James. All rights reserved.

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