Gary James' Interview With
Byron Metcalf



It's not often that you get to travel back in time and interview someone from your past. But, such is the case with Byron Metcalf. I met Byron Metcalf back in August, 1978 when he was the drummer, road manager, and husband of Dottie West. Dottie West was performing at the grandstand of the New York State Fair along with Kenny Rogers. I rode in the limo with Dottie West and Byron Metcalf and interviewed Dottie backstage before the concert that night. Byron Metcalf started playing drums professionally at the age of 15. He's played on several Gold and Platinum records, including Kenny Rogers' album "The Gambler". Today Byron concentrates his musical skills in the healing arts. Byron Metcalf spoke with us about his new musical journey, his start in music and his time with Dottie West.

Q - Bryon, it's been over forty-two year since I last spoke with you!

A - (laughs) Unbelievable.

Q - Do you remember that New York State Fair show?

A - I don't remember that. Some things stand out. We had a limo one day, a limo the next day. Back then there was so much alcohol and cocaine that hell, a lot of it's a blur.

Q - I recall you had a knock on the dressing room door and it was a representative of the Syracuse Musicians Union. He was checking cards to see if everyone was a union musician. You said that rarely happens.

A - Yeah. It rarely, rarely, rarely happened in those days. Back in the '60s it would happen more often, but by that time (1978) and all that was going on, it was definitely unusual. It typically would not happen at a live gig like that, but in some sort of a studio setting or TV thing. Something where there's just a lot more going on in terms of royalties, residuals and that kind of thing. But, like at a State Fair, God! It was somebody who didn't really have have much to do. They need to find a different line of work I think. (laughs)

Q - When I interviewed Dottie in 1979, she had a publicist sitting next to her.

A - Was it Becky?

Q - I have no idea.

A - She had an assistant. I don't recall a publicist. Maybe at that time somebody was doing something for her. At least at that time she didn't have a full-time publicist. She did have a full-time assistant who did all kinds of stuff.

Q - Let's talk a little about what you're doing today. You're into the production of Healing Arts Music. Why did you decide to go in that direction? Did you suffer some kind of health problem?

A - Not necessarily. Not in a clinical kind of way. I just got very, very bored with a term I called Soul Bored. My soul was bored. After Dot and I split up I was in Mickey Gilley's band after the Urban Cowboy movie came out. He replaced his drummer and I was available. They made me an offer I couldn't refuse. I really wasn't crazy about the music, but he was really a lot of fun to work with. It was a good band and the perks were amazing. I liked the job. I had my own room. We had a plane. I had my own drum tech. You just don't travel and tour at a higher level than that.

Q - A plane. No bus?

A - Both. We had two buses, two trucks and an airplane, a King Air 100. So we could fly the whole band in the plane. So, it was fine. I was making good money, but I just was kind of like, "Is this all there is?" I've done almost everything I wanted to do in the music business other than produce a number one record or something, but I played on 'em. I played Carnegie Hall and all the television shows. I had stopped using drugs and alcohol years before that. So, I was pretty clear and clean. I was doing some volunteer work, counseling at an addiction treatment center in Nashville. They said, "We had a position coming up as a counselor and you said you wanted to apply for it." I had a high school education and no background in that, but I'm good with people. They saw something in me that I wasn't aware of. So, without even thinking about it, I said, "Yeah, I'd like to apply." So I did. They offered me the job and two weeks later I gave Gilley a two week notice and I didn't pick up a drum stick again for three or four years. (laughs) That's when I started my education. What really interested me in psychology was the spiritual aspects of human nature. That got me into the more holistic and transpersonal beyond and really studying some interesting things, and indigenous healing practices and shamanism. That really interested me. And so, since music is used in that, a lot of percussion stuff, it would be a natural fit for me. Maybe I could use these skills in the healing arts, and that's how that all happened. Then over time it just evolved into producing albums and really doing okay, doing this kind of music, which is such a small genre, niche kind of thing.

Q - That leads perfectly to my next question. Where is this music being played? Yoga classes? Doctor's offices?

A - Sure. Even some Classical and Jazz stations play some of mine, of my tracks, on all the New Age radio, which is really a broad spectrum of styles and sounds. In terms of where it's being used in the healing arts, a lot of massage therapists. I heard twenty years ago, one of my first albums I did in this kind of thing, was very tribal drumming. I got a report that a guy had gone down to the Amazon, way back in there. There was no electricity during an Ayahuascara ceremony. The Ayahumacara there, the healer, the Shaman, usually sing. They had a battery operated boom box playing my album as part of that ceremony. I got that report and I said that's the greatest thing. I'm aware of all that work, what they're doing, those kind of activities. It's very healing and transformational for a lot of people and so I was really happy to hear that. So, I don't know if you're aware of the resurgence now in kind of a renaissance of psychedelic therapy.

Q - I can't say that I am.

A - Well, there's research programs going on at John Hopkins and others. It's kind of just exploding. My music is used in that kind of work a lot 'cause they're long tracks and they're able to help these experiences that happen with psychedelics and what they call plant medicine. But they're played in doctor's offices. Just anybody in the alternative healing arts. I get reports all the time from private practitioners, hypnotherapists and people doing online classes license my music from me. It just goes on and on. My next album coming out with a collaborator is a long form medication album. We're just staying in the zone for seventy-two minutes. It's really gratifying because it's really wonderful to get reports of, "Wow! Your music changed my life," kind of stuff, or "Helped me heal." That's what it's all about.

Q - How much competition do you have in that field?

A - Me personally, not much just because of the unique style of drumming I do because I'm a perfectionist. So, what I do is pretty unique. I have my own kind of signature sound on things. Me personally, there's not a lot of competition , but the market is flooded with all kinds of stuff, especially today. Just get a band, ipad, and some sort of microphone and you can records stuff and you can put it up online.

Q - I've heard your music Byron.

A - Did you like it?

Q - Yes. It was different. It wasn't like a Pop song. It's smooth and relaxing.

A - Well, sometimes, and energizing as well. The heavy, tribal, shamanic, ambient stuff is really meant for exploring the inner regions of the soul, the psyche. I've gotten some reports that say, "Your music is the best thing to clean the house to." (laughs)

Q - Well hey, whatever works!

A - Yeah, whatever man. A very popular author has a sleep disorder and he told me, "Your album, 'Shaman's Heart'", is is favorite album. It helps him to sleep. I could never sleep with it because it's too energizing. But there's a great report how people might respond differently.

Q - You have a Masters degree and a Ph.D. Where did you get those degrees from Byron?

A - New Mexico and New York.

Q - And you were able to do that when you got off the road with Dottie?

A - Well, yeah. I was working full-time anyway. So it's still hard. I had to make time for it, but I could do it. I was committed and had the energy. I was a little younger. There's a local college here, a very progressive college called Prescott College and I was a graduate advisor in their counseling psychology program, their Masters program. So, I know the structure pretty well 'cause I went through it myself.

Q - Why were you and Dottie doing 250 gigs a year? I suppose you're going to tell me because that's what you had to do to sell records then.

A - Well yeah, kind of. The way I recall it, and this was a conscious decision, is when the Kenny Rogers opportunity happened and that started everything, we went to a whole other level obviously. Dottie wasn't 21 years old. She was in her 40s. So, we knew we got a shot here, probably the last shot. Let's just get on it and stay on it and ride this thing out and maximize it. That was in almost those same kind of words, but that certainly was a conscious decision and that's the way we thought about it. We said here we got a shot, let's go for it and let's stay on it. I'm sure that was part of it. The money was a lot better of course. All that went to Hell with the IRS stuff.

Q - Which I was very sad to hear about. I thought she was smart enough to make the money, then she ended up going bankrupt and lost her house. That probably devastated her.

A - Yeah, for sure. They hit me for it. I don't know if you know the details. Here's what happened: We had a financial advisor. His name was Al Mifflin. He was handling a lot of stars, songwriters, other musicians and artists in Nashville. He invested some of our money in what was disallowed by the IRS as just tax shelters. We didn't know they were tax shelters. We thought they were legitimate investments and of course a lot of investments are to try and shield taxes, but they saw it as a scam, see ultimately. Billy Joel got caught up in a similar kind of investment. They hit him for like 98 million dollars.

Q - I thought it was 32 million dollars.

A - No. It was almost 100 million dollars. Willie Nelson, 17 million dollars or something. So, a lot of people got hit. So, they went back as far as '79, '80. This started in '79. Dottie and I filed jointly on our tax return. So my name was on the '79 and '80 tax thing. Well, after they took everything from Dottie they came after me. (laughs) I was making hardly anything. They hit me for almost a million dollars, with interest. I filed bankruptcy and they disallowed that. Not disallowed it, they discharged it. I was successful in that, but it took everything I had of course. So, it was a mess. There was a couple of songwriters who committed suicide. Al Mifflin was hit by it too, bankrupt. It was just a terrible, terrible thing. Because of Dottie's visibility and stardom at the time it was just all over the papers. She then did something stupid. She tried to hide some stuff from the IRS and so called friends informed on her and they were going to make an example out of her. If she hadn't been killed in that car wreck she would have gone to prison I'm sure.

Q - That bad?

A - This guy was really after Dottie. He was trying to run for another office. He was really a jerk.

Q - It seemed like Dottie's career was in high gear in 1978 and 1979. In 1979 things started subsiding for her. Am I right about that?

A - Actually, her career started subsiding in '81 and '82. In '79 and '80 were the high points. We did two duet albums and there were maybe four releases, four singles. We split up in May of 1980. And it was still riding so high.

Q - I remember she told me she had the Eagles over to the house.

A - Yeah.

Q - What was that for? Dinner?

A - No. She knew Joe Walsh because of Bill West, Dottie's first husband. He invented the Wah-wah tube. That was Bill's invention. People attribute it to somebody else.

Q - That somebody else was Del Casher. I just interviewed him.

A - Yeah, well Bill West invented it. (laughs) He gave Joe Walsh the one he was using. So they knew each other and were kind of friendly. I guess Joe came over to the house. This was before Dottie and I got together, during that time. So when the Eagles "Hotel California" tour was coming to Nashville, we wanted to go see 'em. I called Joe and he said, "Yeah, it would be great to see you. I'll have backstages for you." So, we did. It was just Dottie and I at the show. It was just incredible. I'd never seen anything quite like that. And so we invited 'em, "If you guys aren't doing anything..." We're backstage after the show and "C'mon over! While you're there there's a pool table and you can hang out." So, they said, "Yeah, let's do that." We didn't expect them to do that. We went home. It was awhile, probably one in the morning and a whole damned fleet of limos pulled in around the driveway. By that time the Eagles were fighting so much, infighting, each of them had their own car, driver. (laughs) But they came in and played pool and had some drinks, shot the shit and it was just really incredible. I'll never forget, Henley was going off on Joe because of some mistake he made. He was such a perfectionist. Joe was going, "Okay man," but Joe was stoned as hell. But it was a great experience to have those guys over.

Q - Bedsides the Eagles, who else did you have over to the house?

A - Roger Miller was there a lot. Kris Kristofferson was there a lot. Mickey Newbury was there a lot. Wynonna was there occasionally. Half of Nashville 'cause that was where songwriters used to hang out. All the songwriters would come around, Kenny O'Dell, Merle Haggard a couple of times.

Q - What a nice house to be living in!

A - Oh man, especially in the '70s. It was a magical time there in Nashville before corporate kind of took over. It was totally amazing. Emmy Lou came over. I remember Brian Ahern, just sitting on the living room floor, talking. Sometimes singing a song. (laughs)

Q - Did Kenny Rogers ever come over to the house? He must have.

A - Oh, yeah. A lot. Probably every time he was in Nashville.

Q - What was your first big break in the music business?

A - I don't know that there was one big break. Probably there were several markers, being at the right place at the right time. I was just fortunate to have a lot of nice, lucky breaks. But, moving to Nashville really changed everything. I moved there for two reasons. Kenny O'Dell, who wrote "Behind Closed Doors" for Charlie Rich, and "Mama He's Crazy" for The Judds. When I left Phoenix, and I grew up in Phoenix, when I was 18 years old and went to L.A., Kenny and I and two women musicians formed a band, kind of a Mamas And Papas king of thing. We played in the Nevada circuit. That kind of stuff. Kenny was a songwriter, an artist, trying to make it and learn the craft. Bobby Goldsboro brought him to Nashville to help run his publishing company. When Kenny got there he said, "Byron, you need to come here. This town is really ripe and wide open. The way you play, the style," more of a Country/Rock, natural kind of way I played. And so, I was planning on doing that and then Dottie and I met. I'd met her, but then we kind of ran into each other where we got involved. Then I made the move because she said, "We're just kind of going to change the band around." I came there, I thought to so studio work, but I ended up just working with her. We were working together all the time.

Q - You actually got an autographed photo of Dottie when she was performing in Las Vegas in 1968.

A - Yeah.

Q - Where was she performing?

A - At the Golden Nugget. I had just gotten out of the Army, out of Vietnam. I was with this group called The Kimberlys. A couple of years later we did this album with Waylon (Jennings). Our version of "MacArthur Park" won a Grammy Award. So anyway, I was playing drums with The Kimberlys. That's where I met Dottie. I really didn't like Country music that much. I liked Folk/Country stuff. I liked what Waylon did, but Waylon wasn't what I associated with Country music. Dottie was just way different than females singers like Kitty Wells. I didn't even like Loretta (Lynn) that much. It was just kind of a little too hillbilly for me at the time. I love 'em now. When I heard Dottie sing, I said, "Boy, this is really different!" (laughs) She could do anything.

Q - She had a nice voice.

A - She had a great voice.

Q - When you were with Waylon Jennings, did he ever talk about Buddy Holly and the night of February 3rd, 1959?

A - Yeah. So, let me clear that up. I wasn't Waylon's drummer. I wasn't in his band. That was Richie Albright. But I did play on Waylon's first record coming out of Phoenix. I was still in high school. I wanted to work with Waylon because I loved what he was doing. He was so popular! But he didn't have a drummer. And so A&M Records, Herb Alpert and Jerry Moss before "Lonely Bull", signed him. So, they came over to Phoenix to produce some tracks. Waylon hired me for the session. I'd never been in a studio before. I was so green it was incredible. But I knew Waylon well. I played on that album we did, "Four Strong Winds", which then Bobby Bare heard and did and had a number one record on. We did "House Of The Rising Sun" before The Animals came out with it on that session. Just the first version, "Just To Satisfy You", Waylon re-did later. So that was my association with Waylon. We knew each other all along. Then I went and joined with Kenny O'Dell and had gone to L.A. My mother called me and said, "Waylon called and wants to hire you." He was finally going to get a full-time drummer. I said, "Well, tell him I'm gone." (laughs) Over the years we did shows together. We were still friends.

Q - Did he ever talk about Buddy Holly?

A - Not much. He didn't fly in an airplane for a long damn time. He felt really guilty. He felt this weird kind of guilt, giving up his seat to The Big Bopper. He didn't talk about it much. It was a dark event in his life.

Q - When I met you in August of 1978 you were doing triple duty. You were Dottie's husband, her road manager and her drummer. Were you also Kenny Rogers' drummer or did he have his own drummer?

A - He had somebody else, Bobby Daniels at the time. Occasionally, on "Ruby Don't Take Your Love To Town", both of us would play. So, it would be fun. What happened is, my play with Kenny Rogers was on "The Gambler" album. The studio drummer had an emergency at home and so he gets up. I was at the studio. Dottie was at the studio. They were alternating. Dottie would do a song, then Kenny might do a song. They they might do a duet. They were kind of alternating like that. It was very cool. It was during the recording of the "Gambler" album. I had just come home with my friend Ed, who was a musician in Kenny's band. We had come back home and the phone was ringing just as we were walking in. I was told, "You need to get back here 'cause Kenny's drummer left." I said, "Okay." Luckily I was home. I grabbed my stick bag and pedal and left for the studio. The first song we did was "She Believes In Me". So, I got to play on that monster record. Then on a couple more tracks and three tracks on the second duet album called "Classics". So, all of those happened in a two day period. So that was playing with Kenny Rogers, other than, (laughs) and this is some cool stuff. Let's flash back to 1971 and I'm living in L.A. with Alex Harvey. He wrote "Delta Dawn", and Larry Collins. And so the three of us are living in Benedict Canyon. Alex and Larry are writing songs and were going to do a demo session. They asked me if I want to play drums. I said, "Sure." We were in a studio in Hollywood. Kenny Rogers was there, but he was playing bass. Kenny Rogers was helping to produce the session 'cause he already, with the First Edition in the building, recorded some of Alex's songs, "Tell It All Brother" and a couple of Alex Harvey songs, "Ruben James". I played drums and Kenny Rogers playing bass on the demo of "Delta Dawn". So, that was my first time playing with Kenny Rogers.

Q - What I didn't know at the time I interviewed Dottie was that she met Elvis. I don't know, did she know him? Did you ever meet Elvis?

A - Yeah. That was in Vegas. That was when Dottie was working with Jimmy Dean at a nearby hotel and Elvis came to see 'em. This was probably '69, '70. Probably 1970. I'm with The Kimberlys. We were a really popular band in Vegas. The album with Wyalon had already come out. So we were at the Stardust Hotel. It was just packed, the place, the showroom there. So, we knew Elvis was in town, rehearsing for his upcoming gig. It was the buzz of the town. "Elvis is in town." This stage at The Stardust was a revolving thing. As one act was going off, the other started. So the stage is comin' 'round, the curtain goes up, the place is packed. There's two female singers and two brothers. That was The Kimberlys. And they were married. The maitre'd gave the lead singer a piece of paper, like a note. We do our opening song, but during the instrumental part of that opening song, Verna (the lead singer) turned around to me. I'm on the drum set, the drum riser and she looked at me and her eyes are real big and she says, "Elvis is in the audience." I said, "Aw shit," he wouldn't come to see us I didn't think. Give me a break. Well, the front man for the group, Harold, he says after we're done with the opening song, "Welcome to The Stardust ladies and gentlemen. We're The Kimberlys and we'll be here with you," and yada, yada, yada. "Have a good time. And we also want to say we have a special guest in the audience. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Elvis Presley!" (laughs) Well, he's sitting in the corner of the VIP booth. Sure enough, he stands up and we played that show to almost the back of everybody's head. They're all craning to look at Elvis. I had a girlfriend at the time. Actually, I almost married this woman and we're still good friends. She was visiting at the time from L.A. After shows we'd meet and go do something between shows. When the show was over I didn't even change clothes or anything. I said, "I'm gonna go meet this guy," meet Elvis. So, I just took off. I went down. I was kind of making my way. I was looking for my girlfriend. Her name was Pam. I didn't see her and by that time the security guards were all around the booth Elvis was in and all these people were trying to get autographs. I'm still looking for Pam. I'm kind of standing on my tiptoes, looking and looking. I look and Pam is sitting right next to Elvis in the booth! (laughs) Oh, shit. What do I do now?

Q - You just lost your girlfriend to Elvis!

A - Yeah. (laughs) I said if you're gonna lose your girlfriend to Elvis, that's pretty good! (laughs) I didn't know what I was gonna do. "Hey man, you got my girlfriend." So, he's got his crowd of guys, the Memphis Mafia we called 'em. I'm kind of craning my neck looking, trying to figure out what to do and one of these (security) guys stands up and makes his way through the crowd, grabs me by the arm and takes me back into the booth. Everybody in the booth stands up, including Elvis. They moved everybody out and set me in between Pam and I'm right next to Elvis. Boom! There I was. He was just the nicest guy. He was everything people used to say about him. Very cordial. Very engaging. He complimented me on my singing. I used to sing. We talked about drumming and his drummer Ronnie Tutt and just had this great time. It was amazing. The rest of The Kimberlys came out to meet him. I got to introduce Elvis to them like here's my old buddy Elvis. (laughs) It was just a great, great, great experience. Pam said he was just respectful and cordial. Pam was just a knockout. They approached her and said, "You want to sit with Elvis?" And she said, "Oh, sure." Then it ended up him saying "Help me sign autographs here." Anyway, that's my Elvis story. A long one. (laughs)

Q - Well worth it. Readers like to know about Elvis. When it was announced that Elvis was in the audience, did he like that? Would he have preferred to have remained incognito?

A - No. He liked being noticed. Sure. That's what they did. They'd go out and party and have a good time.

Q - When you talked earlier about life on the road being a haze of alcohol and cocaine, are you talking about just the band? Did Dottie also partake in that as well?

A - Let me put it this way, everybody partook in everything. Some more than others. Some not so much. Occasionally we'd have a musician that didn't drink or do something, but that was more the exception than the rule.

Q - Before we end the interview, I just have to tell you that as I'm waiting in the hotel lobby back on that day of August, 1978, Dottie and you and the band came walking out and the hotel help behind the check in/ check out counter stood up straight. I'd never seen a reaction like that before. It was a VIP reaction. I just took it all in. It was an incredible experience.

A - I'll bet.

Q - And there are days I can think about that like it was yesterday. Forty-two years Byron.

A - Wow! (laughs)

Q - And here we are talking!

A - Yeah. I'm pretty damn healthy, all things considered. There's the aging process of course. But, I've had an amazing life and still do.

Q - You got to live out your dreams.

A - Yeah. I have old friends from back then, musician friends, and people focus more on the past and some of those experiences. It's interesting and that's great, and for myself I'm really focused on what's in front of me right now, the projects that are here and what do we do about climate change. That kind of stuff. That's the kind of thing I'm involved in.

Q - You got to meet and interact with people like Waylon Jennings and Elvis. Not many people can say that!

A - (laughs) I know it.

Q - And lived to talk about it, which is even more impressive!

A - Yeah. That's a big one. There's a lot of folks who are gone that are younger than I am. One of my best friends in Nashville is Ron Oates. He's a piano layer. He played on sixty to seventy Gold and Platinum albums. Anyway, he just turned 80 and he's still working. Not because he has to. I'll do this as long as they let me, is his phrase. (laughs) I mean, what else you gonna do? It's kind of what keeps you alive, keeps you going. There's nothing like the creative flow happening and coming through you. Your soul gets lit up and excited about something that you're involved in. Music obviously, the arts. Any creative process works.

Official Website: www.ByronMetcalf.com

© Gary James. All rights reserved.

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