Gary James' Interview With James Donna Of
The Castaways



They are best know for their song "Liar, Liar", which reached number twelve on the Billboard Hot 100. That song has received over 2.5 million views on YouTube and been featured on soundtracks including, Good Morning Vietnam and Lock, Stock And Two Smoking Barrels. Debbie Harry and Blondie covered "Liar, Liar", which was featured in the Married To The Mob soundtrack.

They played ballrooms across the mid-West. We're talking Minnesota, Iowa, South and North Dakota and Wisconsin. They appeared on the top TV shows of the day, American Bandstand, Where The Action Is, Merv Griffin, Shivaree and Lloyd Thaxton. They released five albums and eight singles. They were inducted into the Minnesota Rock And Country Music Hall Of Fame and the Iowa and South Dakota Rock And Roll Halls Of Fame.

The group we are speaking about is The Castaways. Original member James Donna has written the story of The Castaways title Liar, Liar. From Garage Band to Rock Stars. The Story of Minnesota's Castaways In The 1960s. (Castaways Publications. website: www.TheCastawaysRock.com). James Donna talked with us about his book and the history of The Castaways.

Q - James, I like this book. You've captured what it was like to be in a '60s Rock 'n' Roll band.

A - Thank you. Thank you very much.

Q - What I always say is, to truly appreciate and understand what happened in the '60s you had to have been alive then. Sure, we've got YouTube and oldies radio today, but it's not the same. So, are you aware of people reading this book who weren't alive in the 1960s and what do they say to you?

A - You know, a lot of people have ordered this book that are younger and they like the book. They're interested in Rock 'n' Roll history and a lot of 'em have parents, like their dad played in a Rock 'n' Roll band in Minnesota back in that day. They reminisce about that. Sometimes they buy a copy for their dad. For Father's Day there was a lot of books ordered. (laughs) So, it's all good. Younger people are interested in it. I would say the majority of people who purchased the book are probably baby boomers who grew up in the '60s, but not everybody.

Q - On April 10th, 1964 you guys entered a talent show and won first place and $50. You write, "This was the big break the band had worked so hard for. The big win led to press interviews and more bookings." What did you know about talking to the press? To most up-and-coming bands, giving an interview is an abstract thing. They don't understand publicity.

A - It definitely was at that time because most of us were still in high school. We had nobody to mentor us. We had to figure this out as we went along. So it was all a learning curve for us. We did figure it out eventually.

Q - A big part of your success can be attributed to the fact that you understand business. You were also the manager of the band. You would agree with that appraisal, wouldn't you?

A - Well, they did vote me to be band leader shortly after I joined the group, so I had to learn how to do that job and how to do p.r. and send out posters and contracts and learn how to book the band, so that was another steep learning curve besides learning how to play in a Rock 'n' Roll band. I took the job very seriously and eventually I think it was successful.

Q - You received your first royalty check for "Liar, Liar" in the Fall of 1965. You didn't say how much it was for. Was it substantial or not so much?

A - Back in those days, record royalties aren't what they are today. It was a lot of money at the time. I was able to go out and buy my first new car with it. It wasn't a huge amount of money. It was certainly nice to get that payday for our efforts.

Q - The Castaways were being booked by GAC (General Artists Corporation) and they were working off a 15% commission. William Morris, at that time, was only charging 10%. Did anyone ever give you that information?

A - I don't think so. Backing up the story a little big, after "Liar, Liar" became number one in the Twin Cities and started getting airplay around the country and eventually ended up number one on both coasts, we took on two new managers beside myself. Ira Heilicher and Dick Shapiro became our managers. They're the ones that got us connected with GAC in Los Angeles. So we signed a contract with them to be our booking agent. It was all good because, my gosh, GAC booked The Beatles and some other famous bands. They did a heck of a job getting us on TV, in a movie (It's a Bikini World), and on tour with The Beach Boys. They did an amazing job as far as I'm concerned.

Q - You did The Lloyd Thaxton Show. I used to watch that show. What was Lloyd Thaxton like?

A - As I recall, he was a nice guy. All of the TV shows, it seems like the hosts were really nice to be with. They did a little interview and you played your song. I don't think we had a negative experience with any of those TV shows we did. I especially thought Dick Clark was the greatest.

Q - Did you do a Texas tour with The Supremes?

A - I don't believe we were with The Supremes on that tour. I do not believe they were on that tour. Roy Head was actually with us. He had that big hit, "Treat Her Right". It was Roy Head and The Castaways that did about six or seven gigs in Texas.

Q - Since you were in Texas, did you ever cross paths with Bobby Fuller?

A - No. Never even saw him. We played his music at our show last night.

Q - What did you play?

A - "I Fought The Law".

Q - Your follow-up to "Liar, Liar" ("Goodbye Babe") didn't do so well, sales wise.

A - Right.

Q - What you probably needed was a song with a hook like "She's About A Mover" or "96 Tears". Would you agree with that.

A - It was kind of another novelty tune, but it wasn't in the league with "Liar, Liar". It did get a lot of airplay and sold maybe 100,000 copies, which we said wasn't very good, but to some local Minnesota bands, they thought that was phenomenal. But it wasn't enough to be considered a great follow-up. We kept recording. I think we had a lot talent as far as songwriters. The thing I put in my book was when we were in Los Angeles we could've signed with a major label and had all the backing with their songwriters, their studios, money, financing and all that. It never occurred to us. I mean, we talked about it a little bit, but we thought we had enough talent in the band to do our own songwriting. So, we continued to do that. That's just the end of the story there. "Liar, Liar" was our big, national record and we're happy about that.

Q - What big label would you have signed with?

A - In 1965 I was 20 years old and again we didn't have a lot of experience. Our managers never suggested it to us. They probably knew, but they wanted us to stay with Soma Records. Ira Heilicher, that was his dad, Amos Heilicher, the president of Soma Records, and I can understand whey he probably wanted us to remain with Soma. Probably that could be a reason why they suggested us to explore going with a major label. I'm sure one of 'em would have signed us. We were pretty hot at that time. All the airplay and TV appearances and so forth. I do think we could have signed. That's the way it happened. I'm okay with that, the way things turned out. This might have been a totally different story, a totally different interview, different book had we signed with a major label.

Q - Looking back on it, it seems amazing that some high school kids from Minnesota got to share the stage with The Everly Brothers and Jan And Dean. And you were having fun! In your wildest dreams did you ever think Rock 'n' Roll would become a billion dollar business? After all, Buddy Holly didn't think it would last.

A - That's a really great question. From my perspective of being 19, 20 years old when we started doing this, and the other guys were younger than me, I just wanted to be at the top of the Twin Cities music scene. There were three bands that were doing very well, making good money playing to big crowds at teen dances and ballrooms. We wanted to be in that crowd and that was our focus and it gradually evolved into, "Well, we need to write a song and record it if we're going to reach that plateau." At that time we had no aspirations of being a national act. I'd hear "Liar, Liar" playing on the car radio when I was riding around in my car. It was a real thrill. One day the president of Soma Records called up and said, "We need to talk. I want you to have a meeting right now." So we all drove over to Soma Records. This was, I imagine, August of '65 and "Liar, Liar" was just exploding on the charts in the mid-West. He told us, "You have the number one record on both coasts. You gotta start touring right now." All of a sudden a light bulb went off in my head. "Gosh, we have a national hit record. We need to go out on the road." We were never focused on leaving Minnesota. We were just happy that we were getting bookings in ballrooms and had played with some big artists around the Twin Cities and around the mid-West. All of a sudden, that happened. "You need to go on the road right now!" My gosh, that was just an amazing thing that happened.

Q - The Castaways enjoyed creative freedom. There were no rules, regulations or restrictions. No one was going around saying, "How do we market this? What's the demographic?" Money wasn't emphasized as much as it is today. It really was all about the music.

A - That's exactly true. The music business has changed so much. Back when we recorded you had to cough up some money to go into the studio. It was taped. We'd go into Key Bank Studios and record on a three-track tape recorder and we were out of there in about an hour or an hour and a half. Of course the studios involved became these massive digital studios. Now a lot of these studios are going broke because now you can go in your bedroom with a hard drive on your computer and do all the recording you want for free. There's no gatekeepers like there was back then. Back then the record companies as well as the radio stations, there was kind of like the gatekeepers. They decided if the song was good enough to be played. Today you don't have any gatekeepers. I hate to say this, according to this program I watched, they said there's probably a lot of songs that shouldn't be on YouTube that aren't any good. That was kind of shocking to think about that, all the music that anybody can just upload on the internet. So, things have changed. Back in the '60s when we were playing we were happy that we were making some money, but it was more important that we were having a lot of fun. You'd go to a teen dance or a ballroom around the mid-West and the kids waited months for The Castaways or some of the other Twin Cities bands to appear. And the places were absolutely packed. It was a great feeling to be able to have the kids go home happy and the band had a lot of fun. So, that was what it was all about when we first started playing.

Q - Since you were so well-known in the Twin Cities area, did you have people camp outside your home, asking for an autograph or recognizing you when you were in a public place?

A - Not so much. After the song became very popular and especially after we did the two California tours and all the TV appearances, we started getting a huge amount of fan mail, which was just in the mail. There was no internet back then. Once in awhile you'd go to a drive-in for a hamburger, the car hop would say, "Oh, you're in The Castaways." But there was nobody really hanging around outside our homes or anything like that. We'd get a lot of fan mail though. Over the years I've gotten a lot of requests for interviews, a lot of fan mail still comes in like it did back then. After the book came out, I'm getting a lot of letters from people and e-mails. Who would've thought back in the '60s that we would still be talking about "Liar, Liar". There was no internet back then, no iPhones. It was mail or the telephone. I never dreamt back then that fifty-seven years later (2022) we'd be having this conversation and "Liar, Liar" would still be performed and I'd write a book. I never would have thought that's possible.

Q - For a time when The Castaways would perform, you were the only original member from the band. Is that correct?

A - I left the band in 1966 to go back and finish my education at the University of Minnesota. It was important to me and it was emphasized in my family. You can't tour in a Rock 'n' Roll band and be in school at the same time. It's just not possible. When the early '70s finally rolled around, I really missed being onstage. I missed the music business and I restarted The Castaways and I'm the only original member in this band.

Q - There are some states that have a law where two original members must be a part of the band or you can't perform. Have you run across that situation?

A - I have not. Sometimes people ask how many original members, but we also had our original bass player sit in with us. Dick Roby had played with us for a couple of gigs. The original band was inducted into three Rock 'n' Roll Halls of Fame in the mid-West, Minnesota, Iowa and South Dakota. The original band did those shows. I just wanted to keep playing and performing and doing the Classic Rock songs and entertaining people. It's all good.

Q - Go back to 1966 when you went back to school. Was that a big adjustment, going from the road and being on TV to sitting in a classroom and listening to a professor lecturing?

A - It was really huge and it actually broke my heart when I left the band. I made that decision. That door was closed as far as being onstage and it opened again in the '70s. It was a pretty big adjustment. But what I did do was I started a booking agency, the James Donna Agency, and I started booking a lot of the Minnesota bands in the ballrooms and teen clubs. That actually paid for my education. I still had a connection with the music business, but I wasn't onstage.

Q - When you were in the classrooms, did anyone recognize your name?

A - Occasionally. It happens more today than it did back then. Who would've thought in 2022 people would say, "Oh yeah, you were in The Castaways." Well, I still am. "You played my high school prom," or "I saw you on TV," or "You played our wedding dance back in the '70s." So, I run across people all time, mainly baby boomers, who come up to me and reminisce about seeing the band back in the day.

Q - So, there is still a Castaways. How much work do you guys have?

A - It is strictly a Spring, Summer and Fall venture. We do a lot of concerts, Music In The Park events, a few private parties, a few class reunions, and some big car shows. We love doing car shows. We play two to three times a week during the Summer and just have a lot of fun doing that.

Official Website: www.TheCastawaysRock.com

© Gary James. All rights reserved.



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