Gary James' Interview With Photographer
Charles Peterson



Charles Peterson was in the right place at the right time when the last big musical phenomenon swept across the United States. That phenomenon was Grunge, and the city was Seattle. Charles photographed those Grunge bands. His work was featured in the film Kurt Cobain: About A Son, as well as books and publications. Charles Peterson spoke to us about those bands and that time in musical history.

Q - Charles, is it true that you don't photograph bands or many bands anymore? Is that because there just aren't any bands worth photographing?

A - It actually is true. I photographed local bands in December (2021) when they opened up with that Paramount screening of the Nirvana concert. So, that was kind of the last time. Before that it was 2018 when Pearl Jam did their stadium tours. I like to do big things when The Stooges supergroup played on top of the Pie Place Market, or photographing Mudhoney from the Space Needle in 2013. It's late nights, it's having two younger children. Business wise I would have to do it for a passion. Been there, done that. There are some great bands out there you gotta leave for the youth.

Q - Every city in the United States thinks they have the best musician. When you were photographing all these Seattle bands, did you or anyone around you think, "Watch out! We're on to something special here!"?

A - Yeah. Hindsight is 20/20. At the time I think we knew we were doing something unique, but I don't think we quite saw the bigger picture. When you're in your twenties you don't even see your thirties, let alone your fifties. So yeah, it was really hard to gauge. It did happen quite quickly. Some of us didn't believe it. Some of us didn't have credit card limits to keep up with the others. Seattle is not a center of arts and publishing like New York or Los Angeles or London. It was at that point that the bands ended up elsewhere and just working hard on the road all the time and making music if you look back in a relatively short period of time.

Q - Were there other guys besides yourself who were going into these clubs, photographing bands?

A - Oh, yeah. Most certainly. There was Lance Mercer, who worked a lot with Pearl Jam, Mother Love Bone and Alice In Chains, more on that side of things. I was more on the Sub-Pop, the Punk Rock side of Grunge with Mudhoney, Nirvana and of course Soundgarden. Alice Wheeler photographed some early Nirvana and did more lifestyle stuff in the scene. I really approached it as a fine artist more than a documentation per se. A lot of the documentarian aspect of it came out of like having to make a living at a certain point, doing group shoots for promotion. I think there are some that are hidden. There's one guy, Mike Leach, whose style is not as developed as mine, but he was like at lots and lots of shows. So, he's got a huge collection.

Q - Did all of the Grunge bands know each other? Was it a friendly environment or was there resentment when one group would get a record deal and another one wouldn't?

A - No. I don't think there was much of that. With the core group of Green River, they were kind of the genesis of Grunge, the Grunge supergroup that would splinter into two distinct styles, the more Stadium Rock, Mother Love Bone, Pearl Jam and Garage Rock. For awhile there I think it was, "I don't want to have much to do with that." It was never personal. It was just more like musical differences. And of course it all kind of came back together. Maybe within specific record labels perhaps there was. So and so is getting this much and I'm getting that much. I try not to really pay attention to that stuff. I know in Sub-Pop there were always money issues. Sometimes that probably spilled over to bands. For the most part it was very supportive. If you look at audience pictures, you always see members of the other bands in the audience. Mark Arm was everywhere, at anything he could. Same with a lot of others. There was really no resentment. There was so much to go around at that time too. It didn't take too much to get a record deal.

Q - When did Grunge or the Seattle sound start? Was it the late 1980s? Most of the '80s belonged to the Hair Bands, didn't it? I can only imagine that Seattle was no different than any other city then. So, when did the people of Seattle say, "No thank-you Hair Bands. We've go something else going on."?

A - Seattle was never about a fashion town. Maybe over on Bellevue on the East side a little bit. We never quite cultivated the whole Spandex kind of thing. Just like we never cultivated full on Punk. I think that's where Grunge came together. It was sort of no fashion. We were always a little cold and embarrassed by fashion up here, for better or worse. There were certainly bands like Queensryche, a kind of Metal Hair Band. It really came along with Green River because I think in some ways Green River embraced just enough of the Hair Bands, but then at the same time pumped in all these other influences and kind of rejected it, it set that in motion. So, you can have long hair and you can even incorporate the cool parts of Metal into this, but you don't have to go and be this stupid cliché. So that would have been '85, '86, right in there when Green River came along. And The U-Men of course were a big influence and they were more like a kind of crazy, birthday party, Psych-Rock type thing. And that would have been '84, '85. We were all like musicologists. Mark Arm and I, at the same time we were listening to Hardcore, like Millions Of Dead Cops and Black Flag. We were also listening to Can and Brian Eno. So, we kind of knew all of our stuff. A lot of these bands were able to pick and choose what they wanted to do.

Q - Charles, you were born in 1964. That means you missed the whole British Invasion! So, you really came of age in what, the era of Disco and Southern music?

A - I remember playing my parents' Beatles records. My favorite was "Sgt. Pepper's". "Let It Be" was kind of that weird, dark album. When my parents divorced in 1970, I went to live with an uncle who was only seven or eight years older than me at the time. He was really into music. He turned me on to what is now known as Classic Rock. It wasn't what was much on the radio at the time, Alice Cooper, Elton John and Black Sabbath. Things like that.

Q - That's when you decided since he was a photographer, you wanted to follow in his footsteps.

A - Yeah. He was interested in photography. He had a little darkroom in my grandparents' laundry room. I fell in love with it, the whole process. He really never pursued it. He got into weed and motorbikes. I started in seventh grade, photographing for whatever newspaper there was, yearbook at the high school. All through middle school, high school.

Q - Did you ever think that Kurt Cobain and Nirvana were going to go on to bigger and better things?

A - From what point in time?

Q - I guess from the earliest point you saw them in the clubs.

A - Definitely the first time I saw them I was not impressed and stupidly not impressed to photograph them. The second time I saw them they had a new drummer. This was, I don't know, maybe six months later, and I was just absolutely blown away. I don't think really at any point I thought they would achieve such stratospheric stardom as they did. A lot of that has to do with events out of our control, kind of being the last music movement pre-internet. Just larger things like that I think. The the sort of martyrdom of course, The 27 Club.

Q - You and I are in agreement that Grunge and Nirvana were the last big musical trend. But I would take it a step further. I would say that Kurt Cobain is the last original American Rock star.

A - Wow! Yeah.

Q - He hit on something that was real. There were no props or fancy light shows. It was just the music.

A - Yeah. That's really something to think about. Eddie Vedder might want to talk to you about that. (laughs) Eddie would probably be in agreement with that.

Q - Besides photographing Kurt Cobain, did you ever spend time with him?

A - Yeah, I mean a little bit. Always in retrospect, not enough. For me I think a part of it was photographers who were also musicians had a one-up in the hanging out department, if you know what I mean. I think that's Danny Clinch's secret weapon, beyond being a great photographer. We were both in sort of a weird kind of way; and I was like this with Chris Cornell, we were all sort of introverts. It's almost like when two magnets meet to a degree. You kind of shuffle your feet. We're the kind of people who need somebody who's way more outrageous to sort of bring us out of our shells. We'd see each other out. I was actually one of the last people to run into him before his death. We exchanged words, kind words with each other. A little chat about this and that.

Q - I believe Kurt Cobain and Nirvana played something like a thousand shows before they were signed to a major label deal. Didn't I read someplace that you said Kurt Cobain was unprepared for success. Having done a thousand shows, he was probably aiming for something.

A - Oh, yeah. He was ambitious. He wanted to be successful, to get his music out there and be famous to a degree. I think he wanted to do it though without all the trappings. It's always the trappings that do people in, the industry, the expectations, the responsibility and of course throw in a drug habit on top of that, and a child. I remember thinking why are you throwing a baby into this mix? It's a lot. I know Kurt suffered from some chronic health problems. I have suffered from chronic health problems, mostly migraines, my entire life, practically daily. Quite often I had to bow out on some of the Rock 'n' Roll times back then. I wish he would have been able to step away for awhile, or knew how to do that, how to come to terms with what was going on.

Q - Some people believe that Kurt did not commit suicide, that he was murdered.

A - It was suicide. I heard the letter read in its entirety at the private memorial. It was really very obvious. I never once had that doubt in my mind, not even for an inkling, not a shred. There was one friend that I know who didn't really know Kurt that well in the music and art scene here said, "God, the first time I met that guy," referring probably to '89, "I thought he was going to kill himself then."

Q - Most likely Kurt didn't really know what he was getting into.

A - Yeah. It's Anthony Bourdain. It's just at a certain point, people get in over their heads. It doesn't matter whether you're the biggest Rock star on the planet or not. It's often worse. People don't realize that all of a sudden you've got literally hundreds of jobs relying on you. That sort of thing.

Q - You're absolutely right. Now it becomes a business. All these people rely on you to get a paycheck. That's an awesome responsibility. There are a few people who get it. Mick Jagger is one. Bruce Springsteen.

A - Pearl Jam had done really well in that sense. They don't tour as often as a lot of bands, but they have a whole industry going on behind the scenes that keep their people employed in the off-tour season. It's something you can't grasp at that age and you're in the middle of it.

Q - If you went to a concert these days and you wanted to photograph a group, would you need the permission of the artist's management? Do they make any demands on what you can photograph?

A - Yeah, certainly. Of course it depends. If I'm going to go down to the local dive and photograph some band, I don't think that's really an issue. They would certainly be flattered. Any national touring now is convoluted. You'll hear any photographer bitch and moan about the whole process, especially if you get flack for the first three songs limitation. You can spend more time calling around, getting it set up, driving to the venue, parking, and waiting, than you actually get time to photograph. Even sometimes if you have an "in", it could be difficult.

Q - What do you do with your photographs these days? Do you exhibit them in galleries? Are they used in books?

A - Yeah. I've done a few books, most of which I believe are out of print, but pretty widely available. Cut-outs are used, Touch Me I'm Sick and Screamin' Live, and I sell fine art prints. I've done a few exhibitions. I had some lined up and COVID happened and so it's been difficult to get back to that part of it. During COVID I actually did quite well with fine art print sales. Right now, I'm working on a Nirvana book. So, I was editing this morning.

Q - Photos and/or text?

A - 90% photos and 5 or 10% text.

Q - How will that be released? A major publisher or self-published?

A - We were going to do a Grunge book, but that was just going to be too much to get my head wrapped around. Everybody wants a Nirvana book. I always told myself I just don't have enough Nirvana pictures. Really, I didn't follow them their entire career, just primarily early on, in dribs and drabs, because I was just photographing so many other bands as well. So, I had to kind of come up with a concept finally. I did that this summer (2022). It's not chronological. It's not a narrative. Just listening to the music and kind of coming up with chapters that are song titles. Each one is just a song and a jumble of live photos and then one chapter of backstage images, and one of like posed group stuff. And of course all the guitar destruction and them walking offstage. Just kind of listening to the music really freaked me out to sort of say, "Actually, I do have a lot of photos if I approach it in this way." If I approached it pedantically, it wouldn't be the same. It wouldn't have the same energy.

Official Website: www.CharlesPeterson.net

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