Gary James' Interview With
Corky Siegel



He's a singer, songwriter and musician. You might know his name from his time with the Siegel - Schwall Band. These days he leads the Chamber Blues band. The gentleman we are talking about is Mr. Corky Siegel.

Q - Corky, you're a part of this group, Chamber Blues. That group incorporates Classical, Blues, and Jazz music. Where is there a marketplace for such a group?

A - You know, I'm glad you asked that question. Basically there is none. There's no marketplace. It's actually Classical and Blues. When my wife, who is my agent, calls to present Chamber Blues they say, "Well, you know what? We have a Jazz series. We have a Blues series. We have a Classical series. We have a World Music series." They go through the whole thing. They'll say, "This doesn't fit our series." And Holly (Corky's wife) says, "Corky has been working his whole life to come up with stuff that doesn't fit your series." (laughs)

Q - And their response is, "We're still sorry."?

A - (laughs) Their response is, "We're only doing Mozart this year." And Holly says, "Oh, I see. You mean you're only hiring tribute bands?" (laughs)

Q - Tribute bands are popular.

A - We were thinking about that today. This is sort of an interesting perspective because if I was famous I would be a tribute band, a living one. (laughs) So, when you become famous, everyone knows you. So many people go to the show, go to the concert because it's you. If The Beatles were playing somewhere, and I'm a really big fan of The Beatles, there's no question about that, but a lot of the motivation for going is because they're The Beatles, 'cause it's The Rolling Stones, 'cause it's Carole King. It's sort of a historic thing. It's really like a tribute band. So, a tribute band thing is sort of a natural motivator and therefore a really good marketing thing, whether you're unintentionally a tribute band just because you've been around for a long time. (laughs)

Q - See, when I think of a tribute band I think of band members who look like, sound like, and use the same instruments as the band they're paying tribute to.

A - Well, no different than all the chamber music people playing Mozart, except they don't necessarily dress (like Mozart). Some did. But the point is it's a museum piece. It's important and we need to put that music up on a pedestal. So, I'm not knocking it, I'm just saying it's the reality.

Q - Why wouldn't you dress as Mozart? There's your gimmick right there.

A - Exactly.

Q - If you're wife cannot sell the band you're in, what does that mean for work?

A - As I said yesterday, it's hard to make ends meet when art is in the middle. The Holly said, "Unless art has a last name and it's Rothschild." (laughs) Somebody said, "Corky, you're a true artist." And I said, "Well, one thing's for sure, I'm not a true banker." The marketing thing happens after the fact. First I decide what feels right, what I'm going to offer. Then I have the challenge of finding ways of marketing it. I didn't have to do that before, but now as you know, all the artists, one part of their responsibility is really marketing.

Q - It's a big part.

A - Yeah, but I'm 76. I'm certainly retired from the concept of a career. The only reason I'm doing any marketing is if I do a performance I'm partially responsible for letting people know about it.

Q - You're marketing by talking to me.

A - That's right.

Q - You wrote a book in 2007 titled Let Your Music Soar: The Emotional Connection. That book was not a How To Succeed In The Music Business, was it? Was it more of how to express yourself creatively?

A - Yean, in that general area. It was more of how to have that feeling of expression when you perform, how to maintain that feeling of expression, and creativity when you perform.

Q - And who published that book?

A - It was published by a business book company that was friends with the guy who helped me write it called Nova Vista from Brussels. They loved the book and they actually helped me finish it. They spent a year with me on it, but didn't know what to do with it. So, it never really sold very well, but the people that buy it really love it. So, I'm happy about that.

Q - While you were in college you and Jim (Schwall) got a gig performing at Pepper's Lounge. Am I to understand that guys like Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf and Willie Dixon would sit in with you and Jim?

A - Yeah. It was like unbelievable.

Q - You guys would be the envy of the original Rolling Stones, especially Brian Jones.

A - Well, not only did we get to play with Wolf and Muddy and those guys, we got to be on stage all night long and they would come on and off the stage. (laughs) We were just there with all these amazing, wonderful Blues masters. It was just unbelievable. You know, it's funny no one gets that.

Q - I get it.

A - I know. I think you're the first one. I'm not kidding.

Q - That's kind of strange.

A - Most people don't get that deep to think about qualities, the qualities of things and that's the whole book. It's about expression. Why do we play music? If you read the book, the whole psychology and philosophy is in there. I wrote about it in framing the book. Why do we love music so much? What is there about it? And what can I do as a performer to get more out of it? What am I supposed to be doing here? What is this all about? I would really study that and get deep. It seems like a simple thing that Jim and I got to play on stage all night long with all these Blues masters, but you have to think a little more about it to realize that it's probably not happened to anybody else. It's sort of a historic moment where Paul Butterfield, my buddy, played with all these guys. To be on stage and have them sit in, one after another, is what was sort of remarkable. (laughs)

Q - Where was Pepper's Lounge?

A - Chicago.

Q - Where the Blues was really happening!

A - That was one of the places.

Q - You were in the right place at the right time with the right stuff.

A - At least at the right place at the right time. (laughs)

Q - You can't duplicate what you experienced.

A - No.

Q - Either you were alive and doing what you did, or you weren't.

A - And I was completely naive. Back then I thought, "Oh, this is cool." But now I look back and go, "Oh, my God!" I didn't realize to the degree what was really happening. I was just, "Wow! I got to meet a guy I listened to on a record." That was sort of the extent of it. Now I look back on it and go, "That was amazing!"

Q - By 1967 The Siegel-Schwall Band was touring nationally and playing venues like The Fillmore West. Did you by chance share the stage with Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix or Jim Morrison? Did you get to interact with any of them?

A - Okay. So, Janis Joplin was friends with Jim Schwall. They hung out together. Janis Joplin used to go shopping with my ex-wife. She did open a show for us one time. We were really a hot band in San Francisco. Santana opened for us. We met Jimi Hendrix. Bill Graham calls us at the hotel, calls Jim Schwell at the hotel and says, "You gotta come and meet this guy. Come right now." So, we went over to The Fillmore. Bill Graham invited us and we met Jimi Hendrix. I don't think I ever met Jim Morrison. I was at least a recent e-mail friend with the keyboard player (Ray Manzarek). He had written a couple of times and we talked. For those three, that was it. But you know Siegel-Schwell was managed by Chet Helms and The Family Dog. So, we were in the middle of the whole Summer Of Love, San Francisco scene.

Q - What was your impression of Jimi Hendrix?

A - I really don't remember anything at all about it. My ex-wife tells me he was really very kind and gentle.

Q - And Janis?

A - Oh, yeah. We hung out with Janis all the time.

Q - Jim did, but did you?

A - Yeah. The whole band did. The Holding Company and Siegel-Schwall. At least the Avalon Ballroom we played there a couple of times and we hung out with her. There was another place called The Western Front we played. That's when I think she opened the show and we hung out with her there.

Q - You must've liked her and got along with her.

A - Yeah, yeah. She was great. She was cool. Jim and her used to drink together. They would play tricks on the rest of the band and hide right before the performance and we'd all get upset trying to look around. "Where are they now?" (laughs) They were up in the balcony, watching us. (laughs) So anyway, that was the San Francisco scene.

Q - Siegel-Schwall released ten albums between 1966 and 1974. Ten albums in eight years! That's a lot of albums. When you factor in touring, how did you have the time to write the music, record and tour?

A - I didn't really realize we did that. Jim and I had our repertoire. We put a band together and we went in and recorded the first record for Vanguard. Then I think we went in to do the second record and didn't finish it and Vanguard went ahead and released it. Then I think they released another album of all out-takes. They they put us on suspension. We couldn't record with them anymore. So, we didn't have any recording deal. For the fourth album we had a different producer, besides Sam Charters came in. I think there were only four albums on Vanguard. There may have been some re-releases like "Best Of" or something like that. But, I think there may have only been four if I'm not mistaken. And we did five albums for RCA. So, all we did was music. We were always writing. Jim and I were pretty much the only writers, except for one or two songs. When you're on the road you're writing too. We just wrote all the time. In the '60s we just rehearsed before the gigs and we rehearses whenever we could. We just wrote and rehearsed. That was it. It was sort of an ongoing thing. But for the RCA years, RCA/Wooden Nickel, I had a whole technique for recording that made recording really fast, really fun and inexpensive. I actually have an article on my blog about how we saved $100,000 or something like that, by just using this particular technique for recording. It turned out exactly the albums we wanted to create and the way we wanted to create them and get yet it only took a few days time.

Q - Did RCA approve of that?

A - They didn't believe us. They thought I was taking money out of my own pocket to cover the budget. They couldn't believe we would turn over a project of really the kind of stuff that we wanted to turn over, which for us is really quality, and only spend $6,000, (laughs) when everyone else was spending $50,000 to $100,000. Our most expensive album was $7,600. They loved the records. They just couldn't believe we did it for that kind of money. The way we did it is we went in, we played a set of music without stopping, without listening back. Then we did it again and maybe we took a lunch break and did it again. No session was more than three hours and that would include lunch. Then we'd go home and listen. Spend a few days listening. We'd find out we got three really great takes of these tunes and they were also in a sense all first takes 'cause we didn't re-do them. We'd just do a whole set of music. So, they all felt like first takes. We'd probably done at the most four sessions, three hours each, and getting exactly what we wanted, fun, energy, all the elements we wanted and all the overdubs and the production. The whole thing. We did everything. Why people don't record that way today? No one ever picked up on it. I shared the technique with people, but no one really wanted to do it. They wanted to do eighty takes of one song and then move on to the next song, which to me is crazy. (laughs)

Q - Because you have to reimburse the record company for the money you spent. It was an advance against future royalties.

A - Right. It your money. They gave me a budget, not a large budget, but I said I could do a record easily for $15,000. So, the deal we had is whatever we didn't spend, I'd get back. (laughs) And we just had this technique. It was great and everyone had such a great time too. That was what was amazing. It was really fun and felt artistic and creative just by going in and playing the music.

Q - Did RCA front you any money for equipment and transportation?

A - No. They wanted us to travel. After our first couple of years traveling in the '60s, we just decided it wasn't smart. What we did is we had a 250 mile radius that we would perform in Chicago. So, we were playing The Quiet Night, this club in Chicago every Tuesday, and that's where we would put our new material together. Then on the weekend we would do two dates within the 250 mile radius and that's what we did. Then we would go ahead and decide. Let's go to San Francisco and play the Fillmore and play The Avalon. So, we'd go do that or we'd go to Colorado. When we really did the traveling we only went to places that we liked and we would stay there for awhile and then come back home. We ended up making more money than the supergroups simply because we had no overhead. We had no manager or agent at that time. We had very little equipment to carry. Jim had a tiny amp. I had a small amp. So, we didn't have any expenses.

Q - Who was the business guy in the group? You?

A - Yeah. What I did was just mail a blank contract to Bill Graham. Here's the dates we can do it. He'd fill it out and send it back.

Q - How did you get from Chicago to San Francisco? Fly or drive?

A - We drove. Maybe we'd stop and play in Denver, the play in San Francisco and maybe stop somewhere else and then come back home. Most of the dates were booked by me simply answering the phone. So, I'd answer the phone, write down all the offers and then I'd bring it to The Quiet Night where we played ever Tuesday. I had everyone look at it and we decided which dates we wanted to play and which we didn't.

Q - Who determined what to charge for the band? Was that you?

A - Yeah. That was me and I never negotiated. I had $750 versus 75% of the door. That was it. This way I was able to handle the management because we just knew exactly what we were doing and everyone got the same deal. It was simple. Either we just said yes or no. I didn't have to spend a lot of time on the phone.

Q - Did RCA have their publicity and promotion people working on your behalf to the cities you didn't travel to?

A - Yeah. They came to my apartment. The head of Sales and head of of Marketing tried to talk me into traveling the way other bands do. They left me a little plastic Nipper dog and said they wanted to lock me up with Nilsson and leave. (laughs). I've had second thoughts about that, the stuff that we turned down. But really looking back at the whole picture, I get to do exactly what I want to do. I don't have to worry about my privacy. I get enough recognition to last a lifetime.

Q - Did they take out an ad in a trade paper at the time?

A - They did. They took out ads. The promoted us. There's a couple of ads in Chicago they did that were pretty funny because we were sort of Hippies in our philosophy. We felt like if they're gonna do an ad they should say something nice that helps uplift people. So, they wrote an ad saying Siegel-Schwall was going to come and blow away Chicago and destroy other cities where we perform. I said, "That's really negative." They said, "Okay, we'll do better next time." So they put out another ad that said, "You can take your Gold records and Billboard charts and concert tours and shove it." (laughs) Anyway...

Q - By 1974 the band had split up, correct?

A - Yeah. We had a pause in July of 1968 and then got back together in late '69 and then had another pause in '74 for thirteen years and then got back together in '87.

Q - What were you doing between 1974 and 1987?

A - Mostly solo shows and doing symphony concerts 'cause I got into that. Then I started a band in '82 and started performing with Chamber Blues in '87. So, that's the chronology. But it was in '66, one year after Pepper's that Sagie Azalo came into the club, who was a big fan, asked if my band would jam with his band. And so that was when we performed with the Chicago Symphony, in 1968.

Q - Do you have any recorded product of the Chamber Blues you sell?

A - Oh, yeah.

Q - Since you don't have all that many bookings is why I ask.

A - We get a lot of booking with Chamber Blues, but it's a struggle. Just so you know, if it wasn't a struggle it wouldn't be so much fun. (laughs) I have two symphonic recordings on Deutsche Grammophon and I have two Chambers Blues CDs on Alligator, one on a record company in Vermont called Gadfly, and then this last one, which is my favorite, we actually self released.

Q - Which is the best because you don't have to share with anybody. You get to keep all the profits.

A - Exactly. (laughs)

Q - I was told recently that talent is no longer part of the equation in the music business.

A - Well, it never did. (laughs) The reason I'm able to do what I do and this Chamber Blues thing and make ends meet, and that's about it, and I couldn't have done that if one thing hadn't offered me industry success, and that was a radio station in Chicago called WXRT. When we came out with our first RCA record, all the disc jockeys and all the management at WXRT decided that they wanted to see Siegel-Schwall be a success. So they called every radio station in the country and got them to play our records. Once they did that, all of a sudden we had lines around the block at The Quiet Night in Chicago where we were playing every Tuesday. That took us over the line in terms of not having to ever think about money, in those days anyway, because we were doing really well. So, I attribute my ability to do art without thinking about commerce to WXRT, the radio station. And we had a lot of other great people at Billboard magazine, and the music critics and journalists and all the media people who just supported the band and everything I've done, the symphonic stuff, the Chamber Blues. If you go to my website and go to album reviews, the last album review is unbelievable. I mean, The Rolling Stones don't get reviews like this. It's just incredible. So, I'm really happy. I get to live a simple life. I live near Lake Michigan. We take walks on the lake and we have great meals. It's a great life. I'll go to a restaurant and go, "Gee, I wonder if anyone recognizes me." And every once in a while someone does. "Are you Corky Siegal? I love your work." "Thank you." (laughs)

Q - Do they pester you for an autograph?

A - Well, it's never a pester because it doesn't always happen. There's a number of things that happen if you're famous. As much as you want to serve your fans, it could be over burdening if it happens constantly, every time you walk outside. The other thing I think that's amazing that people don't realize, especially for an artist like myself who is doing Chamber Blues, but I think it applies to everything, if you're famous you can't surprise anybody. Everyone already knows what you do.

Q - With the exception of The Beatles. Every album was different and they changed their looks. You would agree with that, wouldn't you?

A - (laughs) That's right. You're right about The Beatles. They put surprise in their music. That was their element. So it was always there. But even that is not as much of a surprise if you never heard of The Beatles and then they showed up and played. (laughs) That would've even been a bigger surprise. It's that concept. The other thing is, if you're famous you don't get to meet new people. They already know you. (laughs)

Official Website: www.CorkyMusic.com

© Gary James. All rights reserved.