Gary James' Second Interview with Creedence Clearwater Revival's Drummer
Doug Clifford



Doug Clifford is perhaps best known for his work as the drummer in both Creedence Clearwater Revival and Creedence Clearwater Revisited. Now, Doug Clifford is about to be recognized for his vocal skills. That's Doug singing lead on "Magic Window", his latest musical project. Doug spoke with us about that project.

Q - Doug, "Magic Window" was recorded in the '80s?

A - Yeah. Mid '80s.

Q - Is the plan to one day go on the road in support of "Magic Window"?

A - No. It's a completely different idea. When I found the master reel there was also maybe eight or nine other master reels of songs. So, it's really a publishing project. Everything that I've got recorded in either a writer or co-writer on. So, it's a publishing venture that way. But also, what I did do was when I got a bevy of tunes, enough to go into the studio, I would go in and record them as if they were going to be masters, master reels in other words. But I'm going to try and peddle these songs as demos to get a band record deal. It had to sound like a finished product. So, I'm glad I did it.

Q - I was told that the music business today has shifted back to radio air play, which in turns leads to gigs. Problem is, no one is playing gigs these days.

A - Yeah. I just retired from playing live gigs just when all this (Corona virus) all hit. You would think it's perfect planning because we played our last show about two months before they shut everything down. That was the Creedence Clearwater Revisited project, with Stu Cook and myself. I won't be going out, doing that. I'll be releasing records kind of in an interesting way. I own a hundred per cent of the masters. A lot of it I recorded at my house on a 16-track set up. That's where "Magic Window" was recorded, in Lake Tahoe. I'm not looking for a record deal. I'm out on cdbaby. That means if a record company comes along and says, "We like what you have here, would you be interested in being an artist on our label?", it would all depend on what they were offering. The point would be I would be wide open, any and all, to those types of things. But in the interim, with cdbaby I am the record company. They're the distributor. It really costs nothing. It's like 29 cents a song or something. It's silly, but wonderful. So, that's what I'm doing. I'm trying to get air play or play songs and add value to the masters.

Q - If you were called upon to do any live performances of "Magic Window", could you do it? Would you do it?

A - No. It would require more time than I really would have to put in that direction. If one of these songs catches on and goes up the charts and there's interest and they want me to show up on television or whatever, the things that are out there now, I could put together a very simple video. It basically would be a lip-synch, but make it interesting. My son is pretty handy with that sort of thing on the computer, and go about it in that way. It would depend on a lot of different things, but I don't want to go out and sing. I sang these songs thirty-five years ago. (laughs) It makes it kind of tough.

Q - Suffice to say your voice has changed.

A - Yeah.

Q - Those tapes were in your garage for the longest of time. Did you forget about them?

A - (laughs)

Q - At the time you recorded the songs, what did you think you were going to do with them, or didn't you know?

A - Well, I had a couple of bands I financed and played in and recorded. I was at that point, looking for a record deal for the band. One of the bands had Bobby Whitlock from Derek And The Dominoes in it as the singer, and the co-writer. We were the writing team. That's, as I mentioned, the publishing aspect of it. In the middle of the night, we were about to get a deal, and in the middle of the night he ran off with his wife somewhere. She didn't like living in the Bay Area, or some silly thing. I invested all this money and time and it kind of pissed me off, but that wouldn't keep me from putting out the record 'cause the music is good. He has a track record. I have a track record. So, there's that. Then Steven Wright, the bass player from Greg Kihn, who co-wrote "Jeopardy" and a couple of other semi-hits that they had, was from my home town. His brother was actually going to be in Creedence as a guitar player, but he was a punk. He was always getting in fights and we didn't want to fight our way out of a show. So, he didn't make the cut for that reason. His younger brother got into Greg Kihn. So, we were the writing team there. We had a kid named Keith England, who sounded like Rod Stewart, singing the lead vocals. So, I've got an album's worth of that material. Then I've got at least another album of my vocals, but "Magic Window" was to get me a solo deal. I was talking to Planet Records, Richard Perry. He had had Planet Records and sold it to RCA. I think it was in '82 and it was a subsidiary label and of course Perry was a producer so he was still active with that label. I went to L.A. and actually took a couple of songs from "Magic Window" and they wanted me to record them there. So I did. Then I got the word I'm gonna be signed within the next two weeks. "We like it. It's gonna happen." They said that label, and Richard Perry had a nervous breakdown or something I think. So, I packed that album away, and ultimately put it in the storage locker. I was cleaning out my studio in the house and I found a master reel and I said, "Hmmm... I think I have a bunch of these somewhere. And I think I might know where they might be." So, I went downstairs and sure enough, there they were and those others were in there too. I had them baked and they all came out good and playable. I sent it to digital and there you have it.

Q - In all the years you were with Creedence, did you ever have a side band where you'd play out or record? I'm not talking about Revisited, but Creedence Clearwater Revival.

A - No. There was no time at all. We put out three albums in 1969, so we were on a fast track. There was no room or time for anything else. You do your work during the day in the studio and then you come home with little note takers I would call 'em, cassette machines you'd put on the rug in the practice area, that would allow you to hear all the instruments, including mine. Then I would take certain songs that I thought needed help, or didn't need help, and I would record a take or two of that, take it home, put it on my 4-track and then try things I thought might be affective or work on things that had to be a certain way. So, I was doing homework and a full day's work as well. So, we were very, very organized and rehearsed and sober. That's how we were able to put out what we put out, five albums in two years. (laughs)

Q - That's a lot of studio time.

A - Yeah. And then we also toured behind those records.

Q - I know you did because I saw Creedence, the three man group without Tom Fogerty at the Onondaga County War Memorial in Syracuse, New York in August of 1972, I think it was. Bo Diddley opened the show.

A - Yeah. I miss Tom. Tom was just a great rhythm guitar player. He also used to be the singer and the leader of the band. He's the one who brought us along with him. He was four years older. He got us in the studio at a very young age and continued that process for ten years. So, it took us ten years before we had a hit. He gave up doing lead vocals to John, but he didn't think it would be a permanent thing where he wouldn't be able to do any of the singing, but that was what John had in mind for him and treated him rather shabbily. Stu and I would always stick up for Tom. So, we were in the shit house with John. Also, John tried to be a business manager, but he knew nothing about business. We really got the shaft on it as a result of his inexperience and he wouldn't give it up. That was the problem we had with Creedence. The good news is we got a lot of good music done in a short period of time, which included Tom, so at least he got in there. I thought he was one of the better rhythm guitar players around. He should've been able to sing. We did a lot of covers. He could've done "La Bamba". He had the sweet tenor that Ritchie Valens had. It's just not to be. That's how it was, kind of an iron-fisted leadership. You can't deny the musical side of it and that was great.

Q - I did an interview with drummer Kenny Aronoff.

A - John's drummer for a while.

Q - I asked Kenny why he pounds those drums so hard. He said, "That's the way John wants it," and he said John always wanted the drums to be hit that hard. Well, you put a drummer like Kenny Aronoff in the original Creedence or Ginger Baker for example, that the whole sound of that laid back, swing style of Creedence change.

A - Yeah. We started when we were 13 as an instrumental trio. So, we learned to play our instruments together at the same time we were learning how to record together. So we became a recording unit and had a certain sound because of it. We had literally gone through puberty together. So, when you do that and you work together, you have learn to play a certain way which is going to have a certain sound and that's the sound that we had. Nobody was playing anything that hard, not even Ginger Baker. I played the songs the way they felt to me. I'm a feel player. Creedence has a certain sound to it that's identifiable. When Kenny plays, he plays a lot of breaks as well and foot pedal things that don't actually make sense with what's happening with the rest of the band. All the stuff I did, I made sure that it dovetailed to make all the parts work, to make the guitars work. Stu and I were the rhythm section. He had his bass parts. It's an identifiable style. You hear it and you go, "That's Creedence."

Q - Did John ever tell you to play the drums harder?

A - He never told me to play hard like that. I played hard. I'm a little guy, but I'm pretty strong, but I played as hard as I thought I needed to, to make it sound the way I thought it should sound. So there you have it.

Q - If you played drums really hard on say, "Lodi", that wouldn't fit. I don't know where John Fogerty is coming from.

A - I don't know either. (laughs)

Q - Kenny also said John cornered him one night after a show and asked if he was feeling alright. Kenny said, "I'm fine. Why do you ask?" And John said, "You weren't playing the drums in your usual style. You weren't playing them hard enough." I don't understand what's behind John Fogerty's thinking.

A - I think it could be John is going deaf.

Q - I didn't know that.

A - He's having a problem. When Revisited played, we tried to have manageable levels on stage. There's a lot of reasons for that, the biggest one being if you're playing really, really loud you've got a lot of leakage in different microphones and you can get distortion. You don't want that. If there's going to be distortion, a device will create that distortion and it'll work with whatever instrument you're trying to achieve that sound with. But if there's distortion on the stage itself, then everything is distorted. I don't understand it. When he would play for example "Suzie Q" and "Born On The Bayou", it's a quarter note drum beat. In other words I'm playing quarter notes instead of eighth nots. Eighth notes would be one and two and three and four with my right hand on the hi-hat or the ride cymbal, but a quarter note by playing less notes, it makes it shoot bigger and makes the guitars bigger and they swing between the back beat of the two and four of the snare drum. The quarter note is one, two, three, four, one, two, three, four instead of one and two and three and four. You're filling up twice the space. Most of the songs we play are in eighth note time, but those two songs, when you hear them, there's a nice big swing and the guitars have plenty of room to move back and forth with the snare drum by playing less with my right hand. "Suzie Q" was a Rock-a-billy song and I never really liked it much. Playing the clubs you also needed material 'cause you're playing five sets a night, six nights a week. You also want dance songs 'cause they want people dancing. When they dance they get hot, sweaty, and then they buy beer. That's the economics of Rock 'n' Roll. So, I changed that beat over to "Suzie Q" where in the holes where the quarter notes are, the eighth notes would have been on the cymbal, I played on the bass drum. Those are the things I brought to the table, the grooves and having them work with what the guitars are doing. It makes a big difference.

Q - You say you grew up in the years that Rock was evolving.

A - Yes.

Q - Are you saying that Rock has stopped evolving? And what is Rock music today? It almost seems like Country music today is Rock 'n' Roll.

A - Well, that's exactly right. It's a combination of two things. Country went in a Pop direction. Rock 'n' Roll kind of went into Heavy Metal. There's where Kenny Aronoff really thrives. I'm not knocking Kenny Aronoff. Kenny Aronoff is a well trained, educated drummer. He's very high on the list of guys that can do it all. He was shown by John to do it a certain way and he did. I didn't agree with what was going on with that because I'd hear stuff that was being played or not being played. You hit the nail on the head with "Lodi". Listen to that beat and groove in "Lodi". It swings. It's almost like a Country swing beat.

Q - Right.

A - Listen to that groove. It's really a good one. That's not one of our better known songs, but that's really a good example.

Q - You're right. Kenny is a great drummer. He's a hired hand. He does what he's told to do by John Fogerty. If he doesn't, he's out the door.

A - Yes. John is doing his thing. We're doing ours. We've had our ups and downs for sure. At this point in my life, I'm 75, I've played the last twenty-five years in a band called Creedence Clearwater Revisited and that's every year from January or February, through November on the road. That's quite a beating your body takes. Drumming itself takes a toll. You're sitting on a hard stool and you're not sitting straight. I'm sitting on my left cheek so my right leg can play the bass drum. You put an arc in your spine and then you're bouncing up and down. It's like driving a jackhammer, really. (laughs) It takes a toll. Stu wanted to do some different things. We have a few years ahead of us. It was time for a change. We're very thrilled with that project (Creedence Clearwater Revisited). We brought live Creedence back to the fans. John wasn't playing Creedence music. He refused to. Once we started playing the songs and had success with it, then he started playing the songs again. So, I think we reunited him with the catalog and he should be. He's the writer on those songs. He should be doing those songs and he is now. In terms of that, he didn't like what we were doing, but I think I gave him the kick in the ass, "Hey buddy, you better get out and play those songs 'cause these guys are doing a pretty good job of playing 'em and people want it." Everybody wins in that case.

Q - From what you told me about John, you just have to wonder how long he's going to be able to perform.

A - Well, yeah. I don't know that. I know that his guitar is really loud. A lot of people complain. Your ears are just what they are. They're really fragile.

Q - Where did this "Cosmo" come from in your name?

A - It came from my college days. In my college days they called me Clifford C Clifford. The origin of that I have no clue. But anyway, it was "Hey, Clifford C Clifford. We need a fourth for pedro. You wanna play?" That's a card game. We played a lot of pedro in college. (laughs) It's a poor man's Bridge is what it is. But anyway, that's another story. I had a background in entomology as a kid. I studied insects as a butterfly collector. Then I got past the butterfly collecting and I started observing colony insects, wasps, bees and termites. There are some pretty fascinating things going on in that world, a collective intelligence in a pure communist environment. That's what those insects do. So, I started studying that. I got to know a lot about their habitat and how they affect things around them. So, we lived in the Animal House when we were in college, Stu and I and a bunch of other guys. There was no adult supervision. Guys would throw their half-eaten hamburgs in the corner. It was just a pit. Of course we had ants and we had roaches. So, we had a meeting. Everybody was complaining about it. I said, "You know, I can get rid of all the vermin, but you're gonna have to help. You're just creating a perfect environment for them to thrive. Everybody has to get a waste basket and everybody had to use it and empty it. If you do that I'll take care of the vermin." In those days you could buy the deadliest poison at the hardware store by the gallon. So anyway, I went in and bought this deep laced poison and made my little crude balls with it and spread them all around the house in strategic exits and entrances to the vermin. I said it would take about two weeks and it took exactly that, two weeks, and they were gone. So, we were at a toga party I think. Something silly like that, and someone yelled out, "Hey, Clifford C Clifford, what does the C stand for? And before I could answer, the first hippie in the house said, "It stands for Cosmo. He's cosmic. He's a man of nature." And it stuck like poop on a shoe, and here I am, Cosmo or Cos from all my bandmates. It's become kind of a signature for me. A signature nickname.

Official Website: DougCosmoClifford.com

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Doug Clifford

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