Gary James' Interview With Rock Photographer
Eric Hayes
He's photographed Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, and The Rolling Stones to name just a few. He went on the road with Joe Cocker. He was at the 1969 Isle Of Wight Festival and The Stones' Hyde Park Concert. Eric Hayes has been around. We spoke with him about his Rock 'n' Roll journey.
Q - Eric, you've been photographing Rock musicians since you were a kid, correct?
A - Yeah. I've had a passion for it. I guess what I want to say about that is that I got interested in music around the time The Beatles showed up, '62, '63.
Q - You mean '64?
A - No. It was earlier, '63. I was still in high school. My passion was always music and photography. I wanted to be a musician, but it turned out I'm not very good at it, (laughs) even though I learned guitar in high school from a guy who played in a Rock 'n' Roll band called The Shadracks, in Kelowna, British Columbia. Then I went to California to photo school, Brooke Institute in Santa Barbara. I had played in a couple of bands, but I was never very good. I know for sure my musicianship would never have gotten me into the recording studio with The Rolling Stones, but my photography did. You can meet a lot of people doing it that you wouldn't have done otherwise.
Q - You're absolutely right!
A - Photography opens doors for you. You get to go places other people don't.
Q - Were there quite a few bands coming through the city you lived in that you could photograph?
A - They came through.
Q - National acts?
A - No. Well, now and then one would've had a hit out. We had a venue called The Aquatic, which was kind of a dance hall overlooking the lake. There was a local band I told you about, The Shadracks, and they played there a lot. So yeah, I started taking pictures of them when I was in high school. I have pictures from '62, '63. The lead guitarist, Craig McCaw went on to be with a group called The Poppy Family in Vancouver. They had a number of hits, "Which Way You Goin' Billy" was one. I often watch TV with the close captioning on and saw one of The Poppy Family songs was being used in the soundtrack. So, it's funny obscure bands from back in the '70s, the music lives on if it's appropriate.
Q - I guess they just don't write music and lyrics like they once did.
A - I can't really relate to modern music. I watch The Voice and listen to what Pop music is today, but it doesn't always click with me. I mean, my parents hated The Beatles and The Rolling Stones. They said, "That's not music." They liked Liberace, Lawrence Welk, that sort of thing. But I think The Beatles seem pretty tame today compared to some of the stuff.
Q - You're right. I always say you should be able to appreciate all kinds of music.
A - Of course.
Q - So, after you realized being a musician was not for you, you then decided to pursue photography?
A - No. I was already a photographer. I was at the Brooks Institute of Photography, learning photography. I thought it's something I really like. I have a fairly good eye at it, but at the same time I was in a few little bands, playing gigs for fun. But like I said, never got good at it. I even made a demo, shopped it around Hollywood to Capitol Records. Nobody was interested. I wasn't very good. When I finished school I sold all my Rock 'n' Roll equipment and came back home to Canada, met a girl at a party and we bought one way tickets to Bombay.
Q - I'll get to that part of your life in just a minute. But back up. What can they teach you at Brooks Institute that you couldn't learn on your own? Technique?
A - Yeah. Lots of technique. One of the most interesting exercises was shooting a white bar of soap on a black cloth. It's a bar of soap that's got ridges in it. We shot four by five film in a view camera, so we would have these black cloths put over our heard to focus in the bright sunshine. Anyway, shooting a bar of soap on a black cloth in the bright sun and wanting detail in both. So we learned how to expose for the shadows and develop for the highlights, or expose for the highlights and develop for the shadows. I can't remember which now. (laughs) The idea was to overexpose and under develop so you compressed the ratio so you could have detail in both. Those were the kinds of things I could never have learned on my own. The one thing I really learned is how to develop and print black and white film. But then it was a two or three year course, it moved into advertising and color and I was really more interested in the nitty gritty, black and white, Life magazine kind of stuff. I wanted to travel the world and take pictures of poor people on the street. So, I dropped out. I thought, "This isn't going where I want to go." I remember going, talking to the Dean of Brooks and telling him, "I'm going to quit." He said, "You can't do that." (laughs) I said, "Well, I'm doing it." My parents were not all that happy about sending me to California. You know what's going on in California in the mid '60s.
Q - Riots.
A - No. We're talking about personal discoveries, finding out about yourself, about the world. I'm a small town kid from Canada and I go to California in the mid '60s and there's all the Be-Ins. There's an awakening of consciousness. People are smoking pot. Music. Jefferson Airplane. Grateful Dead.
Q - When you dropped out of Brooks Institute you decided to go to India. Why India?
A - It was a popular thing to do back in those days. I had gone to some lectures when I was in Santa Barbara. I learned about enlightenment. I thought that's a good thing to do with my life, get enlightened. So there was a big interest in India. All kinds of people were interested in Eastern philosophy. What better place to go than to India? Then of course George Harrison and Ravi Shankar. George Harrison got involved with Ravi Shankar's music, the sitar and Indian music. There's a story on my website (www.EricHayes.ca) about me meeting George Harrison and Ravi Shankar at the Hollywood Bowl in 1967. So, there was a lot of interest in the East, so I thought, "I want to go see it myself." So yeah, I dropped out. Timothy Leary was telling everyone, "Turn On. Tune In. Drop Out." I dropped out, came home, met a girl and we bought one-way tickets to Bombay and traveled to Tokyo, Japan on the way. Japan, Hong Kong. Along the way I got a telegram at the American Express office in Tokyo from J.K. Hoffman, who was the manager of Ravi Shankar. Because of those pictures I had taken backstage at the Hollywood Bowl, they wanted me to join a film crew that they had in India, making a movie about Ravi Shankar and the music of India, thinking it was very trendy and popular at the time and should make them a lot of money. So, we got to Calcutta and traveled with them for a month and a half. We went to some amazing all-night concerts with all kinds of musicians. An audience sitting on carpets outdoors. Being in the hotel rooms with Ravi and his tablin player, Alla Rakha. Apparently in Indian music, all the notes you play, the beats you make on a drum, they're all versions of the human voice. So, they can sing the tabla beats. I forget how it goes, but I'd hear them. They'd count them with their hands too because they're unusual rhythms. They're not just like 3/4 and 4/4 like we have. I was just like 23 and I didn't know anything, but it was mind boggling.
Q - You made enough money in India to go to England.
A - No. My girlfriend and I got married and my parents sent me $1,000 as a wedding gift. We ran into an English couple who had a Land Rover they had driven out. In those days you could drive from England to India, through all those countries like Iraq, Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan. A lot of young people went out to India back then. The couple that we met, who were our witnesses for our wedding, they were planning on selling their Land Rover and flying back or something. Because we had some money, all four of us decided to drive and use the money to buy gas. So, we drove. It took thirty days, ten thousand miles to go from Bombay to London.
Q - How much did you spend on gas?
A - I have no idea. We slept and camped on the side of the road. I'm appalled at the things I did back when I was young, and nothing happened. Today you'd be pretty frightened to do that sort of thing I think. The world is a less safe place now than it was, even though in the '60s we had that threat of nuclear war hanging over our heads. On the ground it didn't seem dangerous at all. It was pretty comfortable.
Q - When you got to England you went around to two clubs, the Marquee Club and the 100 Club. The Marquee Club I've heard of. The Rolling stones played there. But the 100 Club I've never heard of. What kind of place was that?
A - I don't really remember. I guess it was small because Fairport Convention played there. I just went around as a freelancer. I went to clubs where there were bands playing. If I liked the music I took some pictures and the after a break or after the gig I'd go up and say, "Hi. I got some nice pictures tonight. Would you like to see them?" Everyone of course says yes 'cause they need good photos. Back then good photos were harder to come by. So, I would get them developed and go to their management or whoever and show them. I'd get invited back. A couple of cases they got used on album covers. There was a movie that came out in '67, I think it was called Blow Up. It's a movie about a photographer in Swingin' London, and he goes under cover. At the beginning of the movie he's just getting out of jail. He's been undercover as a pretend criminal, taking all these gritty photos. The next thing you know he's back in his studio. He's got all those dolly birds and he's having a grand old time getting laid as a photographer and partying. So, when I got to London I think there were a lot of pretend photographers who thought, "Hey! This is a great way to meet girls and have fun," but there wasn't a lot of talent necessarily. The quality of my work spoke for itself. Plus, I'm a pretty low key guy. A lot of people, how shall we say it?
Q - Over the top.
A - Some people have big egos and swagger. Perhaps my personality or lack there of, who knows, was an asset. That, plus I was able to take reasonably good pictures. I always felt I didn't have the right to tell people where and how to pose. I thought my job is to watch, wait and be ready for when those great moments come along.
Q - You were at The Rolling Stones Rock And Roll TV show and you got to interact with the artists who were on that show, including John Lennon. What did you think of Lennon?
A - No, I didn't get to interact with them. I went there on something called a photo call where all the musicians, the key players in the circus, were asked to come in costume and stand around and be available for the press. So, there were quite a few photographers there that day, taking pictures of them. That one of John Lennon and Yoko Ono, she's dressed as a witch, which a lot of people might say is appropriate (laughs) and he was a wizard. A witch and a wizard. I had my lens trained on him and I had it in focus and ready to go. I took about three different frames and in one of them he looks me straight in the lens and that's how I got that nice shot of him.
Q - Did you have a chance to talk to him at all?
A - No. I didn't. He had another photographer, Ethan Russell, who was one of John's favorites who got invited to recording sessions and was up on the roof with them when they did their roof concert, the last concert they gave. He was an American photographer, so I think he was preferred. So, I stuck with the lower key bands like Fairport Convention, who by the way are still going. One of the original members, Simon Nichol is still with them. So, we got along really well, that band and me. And Joe Cocker too. I spent time traveling around with him in London and on the road. He was a nice guy. I really liked Joe.
Q - You were in the studio with The Stones when they were recording "Beggars Banquet"?
A - Well, I thought I was. Now after talking to a few people, maybe it wasn't. It was the "Let It Bleed" album. So, I've lost a lot of my material. I don't know if you know that. I lost a lot of my negatives.
Q - What happened to them?
A - I left them in England. I had a friend who was going to look after them. I was a starving artist. I wanted to come back to Canada after being away for two years. You miss the blue skies and the forests and the trees and the rivers of British Columbia. So, I wanted to come home. But I had a friend who was willing to market my stuff for me and answer the phone 'cause there was a steady demand for pictures from magazines, something called Time Out, which was an entertainment publication. So anyway, I left my stuff there. I brought all my color slides with me and a couple of pages of black and white negatives, but left most of the stuff with him. I guess I wasn't making anybody any money and he got tired of it and gave it to another photographer that was a friend of mine. He said, "Sure, I'll look after Eric's stuff for him," but then this other photographer got mono, mononucleosis, and ended up in the hospital for several months. He couldn't pay his rent so his landlord chucked 'em out and dumped all his belongings, including my negatives on the sidewalk, and the bin man took 'em away.
Q - The bin man or garbage man as I call him here.
A - Yeah.
Q - You just lost a small fortune, didn't you?
A - Well, not a question of money, but it now appears to be more of a historical record and quite sad to have lost that. For years it was a half empty, half full glass thing. I was really sad about not taking them. When you're an artist they're your babies. Since then, there's a gallery in Halifax, Nova Scotia called Viewpoint that I helped start in the year 2000. The other members of this gallery found out that I had been taking Rock 'n' Roll pictures in the '60s and said, "Hey man, you gotta put together a show." I said, "I lost so much of my stuff," and they said, "What have you got?" I started looking and looking and realized I do have enough stuff for a show. I think it was 2001 or 2002 I put together a show that was a huge success. It got a lot of press. Everyone was interested. We had a huge turn out for my artist talk. I even sold one or two prints. Some of those pictures on my website, Bob Dylan and The Band playing at the Isle Of Wight, and the one of John Lennon and others, were part of that show. Those pictures are strong. That got David Peck of Reelin' In The Years interested in me too.
Q - When you were at The Rolling Stones recording session, Brian Jones was there. You say that he was in bad shape. How bad off was he and did the other guys in the group seem to care?
A - Well, all I can do is tell you what I remember. I was there for two nights. I got into the studio simply by thinking I've been around London a number of months, six months or eight months, and I'd photographed quite a few bands. I thought I'd really like to shoot The Stones. So I went to their business office and the young fella that ran the office said, "Hey, well you're just here at the right time 'cause The Stones are in the studio for the next week or so and we're looking for some new pictures. Why don't you come along?" So, that was fortuitous. So, I went two nights in a row. I think they started at around 9 o'clock at night and took a break for a big supper around 2 in the morning, where as I recall they had roast beef, Yorkshire pudding and all the English food. And then they finished up at 6 in the morning, workrd all night. But, one of those nights I remember Brian Jones sitting on the floor with his guitar. I was beside him and there was a piano there and he asked me to give him an E on the piano. "Give me an E, mate." I played the E. He couldn't tune his guitar. He couldn't hear the note and then I found out later when I was up in the control booth that they weren't even bothering to control him. They said, "He thinks he's playing along with the band, but we've got him turned off." So, that's all I remember about that. It was shortly after that, he died.
Q - You grew up watching The Stones on TV and listening to their songs on the radio. There you are in the studio with them. What went through your mind?
A - (laughs) I'll tell you what went through my mind. I never felt music vibes as strong as I did. There was an adjacent studio to the one they were recording in and I remember I took a little break and went in there and there was a harpsichord and I just started fooling around on the harpsichord. I'd taken some piano lessons as a kid. I'd never felt music go though me like that, a strong flood of musicality kind of rushed through me. I felt, "Wow! I can actually play the harpsichord." I felt music coming through me like never before. That impression stuck with me all these years. So, that's what I felt. I wasn't so much in awe of them as I was feeling the strong music vibe.
Q - You were at Hyde Park on July 5th, 1969. What was the mood of The Stones and what was the mood of the audience?
A - That's when Mick (Jaggar) let all these butterflies go and gave a eulogy to Brian Jones. It was quite tragic. There was a solemnness about that. When they start playing of course their music rocks and there were a lot of other bands there. One called Family. I don't remember what the play list was or who. But The Stones were the main reason why everyone was there. I was in Portugal just before that and made a point of coming back. My wife and I had gone to visit a friend in Portugal. We wanted to make sure we were back in time for the free concert at Hyde Park.
Q - I guess you weren't surprised to hear that Brian Jones passed away then.
A - Oh, yeah. Of course I was surprised. Same with Keith Moon. When you're seen people alive and all of a sudden they're dead... That's not good.
Q - You took photos of Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, and of course The Stones. Was it difficult to get permission from the handlers of these people to photograph them?
A - No, it wasn't. I don't even know if you needed permission. The trick was getting into the concert, but today if a band comes to town you're allowed, the press is allowed maybe one or two songs at the beginning of the event and then they shoo you out. Back then you could stay to the end.
Q - Did you ever get to speak with Janis Joplin or Jimi Hendrix?
A - No. I didn't get to talk to Janis Joplin. I didn't get to go backstage or anything. That was just during a performance at the Royal Albert Hall. But with Jimi Hendrix there was a writer who went to his apartment and I went with this writer. We sat down in his apartment, his flat, and did an interview. So, it's sort of like talking to him. I was there and questions were going back and forth. I don't remember if I said anything or asked anything in particular. Do you know that his apartment has turned into a museum?
Q - I believe I saw something on that.
A - He and George Frederick Handel had adjoining apartments. They've advertised it as two men who chose England, separated by a wall and two hundred years. They've recreated his apartment as it was in 1969. It reads "Separated by a wall and two hundred years are the homes of two musicians who chose London and changed music."
Q - Just listening to Hendrix being interviewed, what did you think of him?
A - We didn't put people on pedestals. He was just another musician. I tend to be more awestruck or star struck today. But back then it was just the music scene in London.
Q - You also met George Harrison. What'd you think of him?
A - I wanted to meet a Beatle. I guess I was a little awestruck or star struck then. In '67 I was 22. I went to the Hollywood Bowl. He had his wife Pattie Boyd with him and her sister. So, that's what you do. You get a camera and go. Lo and behold there's nobody else there at this Indian music concert, hanging around with a camera other than me. So, I got invited backstage to take some pictures 'cause they needed somebody with a camera. I was just a kid. Do you know what mean? (laughs) So, I was pretty lucky. I met George a few times after that, one time at the Apple Studio in London with Joe Cocker. We went together. He was showing Joe how to play "She Came In Through The Bathroom Window", how to sing it or how the lyrics went. I thought this is pretty cool. First it was the inner sanctum of the Hollywood Bowl and years later it was the inner sanctum of Apple Records recording studio. (laughs) That was kind of neat.
Q - Are you still photographing musicians today?
A - No, I'm not. I'm photographing my grandchildren. (laughs)
Official Website: www.EricHayes.ca
© Gary James. All rights reserved.
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