Gary James' Interview With Songwriter
H. Jack Williams



His songs have been recorded by some of the biggest names in Rock and Country. We're talking Gregg Allman, Molly Hatchet, Blackfoot, The Oak Ridge Boys, Montgomery Gentry, Black Stone Cherry, and yes, even Kevin Costner! He's had publishing deals with the company owned by The Who's Roger Daltry, Pete Townshend, and their manager Bill Curbishley, and The Oak Ridge Boy's publishing company. He's shared the stage with Richie Havens and played on demo sessions with George Harrison and Alvin Lee. He knew Lynyrd Skynyrd's front man Ronnie Van Zandt, and recorded with Skynyrd's guitarist Gary Rossington and Rickey Medlocke. And if all that isn't enough, he's also a chef. Described as a lyrical illustrator and a rugged poet, he recently released his album, "Halfway To Hell". The gentleman we are referring to is Mr. H. Jack Williams.

Q - Jack, you've titled your newest CD "Halfway To Hell". It seems to me anyway that you've been to Hell, through Hell. So, why wouldn't you title the CD "Halfway To Heaven"?

A - What a great question! That's a great question. Because honestly I think I'm trying to make a point with this album and I'm trying to come from... I was severely abused as a kid. Most all the songs that are on this album in some way, shape or form had something to do with that. I think in my life I've always felt like I'm somewhere between Heaven and Hell. I'm halfway to Hell. When I wrote this record, that was about those times when I was a kid. Most of 'em. There's one song to my son, but most of 'em are from that point of view. But I'm out of it now. I'm hoping that if people listen to this record and they're in a bad life, they can say, "Well, he got out of it. Look at this piece of work he did and he got away from it," and they can too.

Q - To me, you're a perfect example of what it takes to get ahead in the music business. I'm referring of course to the time you knocked on Richie Havens' door to give him a cassette tape. Most people would've knocked once or twice and given up, but not you. How did you know Richie Havens would come to the door and why didn't hotel security tell you to move on? How'd you get around that?

A - Well, for one thing I'd met him backstage at the show and I had told him I wanted to give him a cassette. He invited me to come to his room and so I believed him. There was an instant communication between him and me and I believed him. It was one of those hotels where it was upstairs. I didn't bang, bang, bang, bang. In those days I was very meek and mild-mannered. I barely tapped on the door. He had music going on in there. He said he didn't hear me knock until I finally got up the nerve to really knock on the door hard and finally he came to the door and said, "Well, one thing you are is persistent." (laughs) And that's what's been my whole life. To this day I still have my little missions that I go after. I want to work with that person or I want that person to hear a song of mine. I want this to happen. I'm relentless until I make it happen. I mean, I did that with Kevin Costner. My wife will tell you, I told her nine years ago (2012), I said, "I'm gonna work with Kevin Costner." It took me two years to finally do that and all the noes that I got, and now we're the best of friends, very close friends. I just won't take no for an answer, unless somebody really does slam the door in my face, and then if I know it's a real no I'm not going to continue on after that. But those have been few and far between.

Q - You've had your songs recorded by quite a few names in the business. Who's the song plugger? Is that you? Do you have a publishing company that's doing it?

A - Well, I've always had a publishing company, but I've always been the one that's got my songs cut. The Gregg Allman song, my publisher, I was writing for Larry Butler Music. He had just finished producing Kenny Rogers' "Gambler" and I was writing for him at the time and his right hand man who really championed me, he helped make that happen. What he did was, he introduced me to Warren Haynes. When I met Warren I got to know Warren. Warren and I and John Jaworowics wrote "Just Before The Bullets Fly". Warren gave it straight to Gregg because there was just that connection and Gregg loved it. But most of the time, I think most songwriters will tell you, we're pretty much the ones that get the job done. We all have song pluggers and we all want them to get the job done for us, but most of the time on big stuff like that I think it's the songwriter who ends up getting it done.

Q - Clive Davis played you the demo of "Mandy", the song that shot Barry Manilow to stardom. I assume Barry Manilow was on that demo.

A - I think he was.

Q - So, why would Clive Davis play that demo for you?

A - Because back then it seemed to be a thing, looking back. Back then all the big publishers and even the ones in Nashville, when a young songwriter would come in and play 'em what they thought was trash, instead of trying to help a songwriter out and say "This is really what you need to do. Why don't you do this, do this, do this." That's what they do nowadays. Back in those days they didn't do that. They went, "Let me show you what a great song is." All it did was crush you, hurt you, embarrass you. It did all the wrong things and sent you on your way. But, thank God I was with Richie and Richie made things change. A big lesson was learned by that. But that's how they did it back then. Even when I came to town here (Nashville) and started knocking on publisher's doors, they did the same thing. They would listen to a song and pull out a demo of Paul Overstreet or some great songwriter and they'd say, "This is what a great hit song is." I think they thought it was supposed to make you try to work to make that happen, but always they would crush you.

Q - But it didn't really crush you. Your persistence paid off.

A - Yeah, but it crushed me for a minute. I still get crushed. I still go after something and they'll pass. Right now we're getting some push back. I'll be honest with you, we're getting a little push back on this record because, well, actually it's the video, the "Beat Me Again" video which is off the record. It kind of hurt my feelings when I heard about it last week. People are going, "His voice isn't consumer friendly." My answer to that was, "What did you do when you heard Tom Waits? What did you do when you heard Leonard Cohen? What did you do when you heard those guys? Did you push them back too?" But it did knock me back a little bit. It made me feel, "Why am I doing this for?" I heard everybody kind of liked my voice, but maybe they don't.

Q - Maybe it's not being promoted to the right marketplace.

A - Well, that's what they said. They said, "We just gotta find the right fit." I get that.

Q - You were in Atlanta in 1974 and you see The Who's tour bus. You asked one of the guys in the road crew if you could get an introduction to Roger Daltry. Next thing you know, you're on tour with The Who. Were you cooking for The Who?

A - Oh, no. That whole thing started out, I was on my way to work. I was cooking at the Abby Restaurant. It's still there in Atlanta. I was the Sous Chef. The first guy I walked up to, his name was Doug Clark. We're still best friends to this day. He still works with Roger to this day. I walked up to him and I said, "What's the chance of me meeting Roger Daltry?" He said, "Slim and none." I said, "Okay," and turned around, walking to my car. He said, "Wait, wait. What do you want to meet Roger for anyway?" I went, "I'm a songwriter." "Well, wait a minute then. Roger loves songwriters." He called Roger and Roger said, "I'm busy, but get him a room and let him hang out. Bring him to the show and let's talk later." Well, later was at the end of that tour. I actually went out and traveled with them and kept waiting for him to talk to me and basically hung out with those guys. I was just like a buddy on the road, waiting for Roger and Bill Curbishley and Pete Townshend to sit down and talk to me about writing songs and I ended up with a songwriting contract out of it, for William Tell Music, which was Pete Townshend and Roger Daltry's publishing company. I had a contract with them for a year. I lost my job. I practically lost my wife. I practically lost everything, but I was 21, 22 years old.

Q - I could say right place, right time about your Who experience, but there's a certain amount of boldness in the way you approached those people to advance your career. You can't be shy when comes to getting ahead in the music business. You have to be like you.

A - The hardest thing I've had to learn over the years I've been doing this, it still takes a great amount of thought before I do it. Each time I do it, it's finding that line between being aggressive and bold and a pest. Finding that thin line sometimes; every individual is different. I've had Kevin Costner say in the beginning of our relationship, "Jack, you're pestering the shit out of me, but you remind me of me. So I'm gonna let it go." But then, I've had other people say, "Will you just back off? Seriously Jack, you're just being too obsessive with me. I'll get to it." So, you have to learn, "How hard to I push?" I think it's that. And I think that's with anything. I don't care whether it's an acting job or whether it's a music job or whether it's a cooking job or whether it's a job working as a lawyer or banker. Whatever it is, it's how hard you push and how much do you lay back to get that job. It's everything.

Q - You were in England for a time and counted Alvin Lee and George Harrison has your neighbors.

A - Oh, yeah.

Q - Did you get to meet or speak with George Harrison.

A - Yeah, he played on a demo. Ken Hensley had a little studio and we used to demo all the stuff before Uriah Heep would record it. Ken would demo it and because I was writing songs for Ken's publishing company we would do demos at his studio. He was pretty much the main writer for Uriah Heep. Whatever he wrote he would demo it the way he kind of wanted Uriah Heep to hear it and then he would take it in the studio. A few of my songs got into those batches and ended up on Uriah Heep albums too. But even my own songs, when I'd get four or five that he thought were really good songs and worthy of demos, he'd put a session together. In Nashville we'd get the best session players in town. He would pick out a song and call Simon Kirke and Mick Ralphs, George Harrison, Alvin Lee and me. We'd stay up all night and play all night on those songs.

Q - What kind of a guy was George Harrison? Easy to get along with?

A - Yeah. It was all fun. When those guys weren't on the road, those guys were just guys. A good example is my album. Gary Rossington (Lynyrd Skynyrd) and I go back long before the plane crash. Him and Ronnie (Van Zandt) and Alan (Collins) and I were friends. I mean, the best of friends. I was a songwriter. We'd have barbecues with the guys in .38 Special. Everybody was friends. Fast forward to now, I called Gary up and I said, "Hey man, what's the chances of you playing on my record?" And he said, "Done!" He said, "Why don't me and Rickey (Medlocke) come do it. We'll be in Nashville such and such a week to rehearse for our next tour." This is after COVID. "While we're there we'll just hop on over." That's it. I'm in the studio, watching those guys playing on my songs. You knew who they were, but it didn't matter. Just great players and you saw why they were who they were. But it was awesome. But when I said to Gary, "I better ask you this, what's it gonna cost me?" He said, "This is one buddy playing on another buddy's album, Jack. Dog gone, I'm in town. I got my guitar. What's the big deal?" So that's what it was like.

Q - You got lucky that they never asked you to be part of the band or you would have been on that plane that went down on October 20^th, 1977.

A - They would never ask me to do that. I was just another songwriter in this world. I'm glad that never happened.

Q - On Ronnie Van Zandt's advice you moved to Florida. You must have done pretty well because you opened up restaurants in North Carolina and Tennessee. That takes a lot of money, doesn't it?

A - I was doing that for other people. This one in North Carolina that was a favor for Nigel Olsson, the drummer for Elton John. He was living in Nashville and working with Larry Butler, the same person I was working for, only he was doing stuff at another level. He asked me if I would do a favor for him. He said he had an old friend that had a restaurant in North Carolina that he wanted to open. He knew that I knew how to do it. He asked me if I would go down there and help him do that. I said I'd be happy to and did that. I did that as a favor to him. The other restaurant, I took a little break from Nashville and I actually got out of the music business for a short period of time and went to work as a chef just to do it because I was pissed off by some of the things in the music business and just didn't want to be part of it for a little while, as most do who have been in it for as long as I have.

Q - You own or owned a catering business in Nashville that you started in 2005. You obviously cater or catered events for famous people in Nashville, did you?

A - Yeah, I did. When they're cutting records it's all Union. They eat at 1 o'clock and they get one hour to eat. The producer loved it if they could get catering in for all the people who where playing on the records, as opposed to everybody going to Burger King and getting out of the studio. So, it was a good deal because I just jumped in on that. There were other caterers who were doing it, but I kind of knew all the guys and kind of put that together.

Q - Which is easier for you, cooking or songwriting?

A - Gosh, songwriting probably, but I love to cook just as easily. They're both creative. I wouldn't ever want to cook for a living. If I get up and go in the kitchen and want to make stuff, I can make stuff just as easily as I can write a song. So, they're both creative. I like doing 'em both honestly I think.

Q - I've been referring to you as Jack in this interview, but you go by the name of H. Jack Williams. Why do you have that H in front of Jack?

A - The reason why is my name is Henry Jack Williams. The H does stand for something. The reason we did that is because there is another Jack Williams from North Carolina and he's a songwriter and he's been around a really long time. He's really, really good and he's really popular. Every time, before we started the H. Jack Williams, when somebody would Google "Jack Williams", he would come up. So, we had to figure out a way to get somebody to look me up, so we put H. Jack Williams music. But I still go by Jack all the time. Everybody calls me Jack.

Official Website: HJackWilliamsMusic.com

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