Gary James' Interview With The Ventures' Tour Manager
Jack De Franco



Without a doubt, The Ventures are the most famous and talented instrumental guitar group there ever was. Their hits included "Walk Don't Run", "Ghost Riders In The Sky", "Perfida", "Lullaby Of The Leaves", "Diamond Head", "2000 Pound Bee", "Slaughter On Tenth Avenue" and the the theme from Hawaii Five-0 TV show. Jack De Franco, The Ventures' tour manager talked with us about his time with The Ventures.

Q - Jack, would I be correct in stating that you were The Ventures' tour manager?

A - I carried a lot of titles. What I told people for a lot of years was that I did what twenty people in Aerosmith do. So yes, I was the tour manager. I also had a title of promotions manager because I did things like I wrote the rider for the band. I did a lot of creative things for the band. I did a lot of advance work for special projects. We did a special project one time called Surfin' The Baja. We took over half a Carnival Cruise ship. This was way back in the early 2000s, before anybody was doing cruises. I did special projects like that. I know a lot about the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame induction because I did most of the work for that. Other projects were some TV shows that we did. I did a lot and we put that under the umbrella of promotions manager. Call me tour manager. Just so you know, we spun off a little record company back in late 2007 or 2008 and we called it Venture X Music. We put out I think three or four CDs. Technically, I'm the president of that. It's kind of a loose thing 'cause Don Wilson (Ventures' guitarist) wanted to put out a couple of CDs and he wanted to do it under a new label and so he just let me run with it. I basically did everything. I co-produced records with The Ventures.

Q - You are a jack of all trades!

A - Yes, I am. I come from a technical background. I've got three engineering degrees. My speciality was acoustics and vibrations. Some of that did get into what I did with The Ventures.

Q - With you it's not, Walk, Don't Run, it's Run, Don't Walk.

A - Yeah. I'm pretty youthful for my age. I started a Surf band here in the Detroit area and I basically do everything we did in The Ventures. I used a lot of the equipment we had in The Ventures. I play rhythm guitar and I've got a lead guitar player that is just off the charts good. So, I'm kind of getting my rocks off doing this because I love the music and we play really, really well. I tell stories, not bragging stories, but stories about being with these guys that were once my idols that turned into best friends. I learned to play guitar in 1964. When I heard "Walk Don't Run" I was thirteen years old and I'll never forget it. I mean, I'll never forget it. I was gonna be a pretty good baseball player and I quit playing baseball so I could take guitar lessons and do that. My dad was so pissed.

Q - You joined The Ventures in the capacity of tour manager in what year?

A - I think it was 1998. I met them in the late '70s and again in the '80s, but I was busy with technical things, acoustics and vibrations stuff. I met 'em and the time just wasn't right. They didn't really need me at that time. But when I met them in the '90s, I can't explain it, they just took me in. I'll never forget the first time I went to lunch with Don Wilson, it was actually in Japan. I was in Tokyo and I went over to the hotel and went out to lunch with Bob Bogle and Don Wilson. We were sitting there and Don told me, "I feel like I've known you for thirty-five years." I told him the same thing. I couldn't explain it. There was just like this attraction. I don't know what else to say. My relationship with Bob Bogle turned into even more than that. It was almost like this weird, cosmic thing. It sounds goofy, but his wife knew it too. There was this bond that we just couldn't explain, but it was there. They didn't have to let me into their life, but they did. Honest to God, it's really crazy. They let me in. It's not that I didn't have skills and things to bring to the party, but there are shysters all over the place and they're always wary of letting people into the inner circle, but they just let me into the inner circle. I can't explain it. I've stayed at their houses. All the wives love me. Honest to God it was like a fairy tale. The only bad news was they were in their sixties when I got started with them. I wish it had been when we were two decades younger. Those days are clearly behind us. The Ventures don't exist, the original Ventures. I mean, I had a great run. It's priceless.

Q - Before 1998, you were doing what with your life?

A - I was doing music on an amateur level, but I really had a day job. I was doing consulting. But the good news is when I got started with The Ventures I had such flexibility that my schedule was my own. So I could fly out of here (Detroit) and go do stuff with them. I always tell people I live in Michigan in the summer and I spend a lot of time in Florida in the winter. So, it was perfect. I'd just bring all my stuff down there and I'd fly out of Orlando and do what I needed to do.

Q - Your job then pretty much took you all over the world?

A - Well, I would say I didn't need to be with them in Japan. Here's the reason why. To be an effective tour manager you need to know how to get around. You need somebody local. You need somebody Japanese that speaks the language. Even though I've been there thirty-one times, I've seen The Ventures over there, but not in a working capacity. They tour there every summer. They've got established Japanese crews. So they didn't need me over there. I still did things for them while they were on tour over there, but they didn't have me as a tour manager over there.

Q - How do the Japanese react to seeing an instrumental group? Every group today is vocally oriented.

A - Well, that's a really good question. I'm learning a lot about that aspect when it comes to my band in terms of local booking. Don Wilson always said, "The Ventures," these are his words, "Are an enigma," because there's no vocals. A lot of people need to hear vocals. When I sell my band locally, there's some places I'll never play because of that and there are some places that are dying to have me because of that. So, it is an enigma. It's a good news/bad news thing. Here's how I market my band: I say we're not going to let bad vocals get in the way of an otherwise great band. In Michigan, we're competing with all these bands that have these big names publicly, but their vocals are not good. Musicianship is good, but the vocals? They lose me. They're not a great band because of that, but they've got a following. It's my personal opinion that The Ventures became as great as they were because they had the uniqueness of being an instrumental band. I guarantee you, this is opinion, but I can prove it I think. The Ventures became wildly popular in Japan because I think Don told me he started going there in '62. It's my contention, and you've got to remember this is only fifteen years after World War II and everybody was calm. Not much animosity, but the Japanese people were craving Western culture. So now you've got The Ventures with these electric guitars and no vocals, so that translated any language barrier. Do you know what I mean?

Q - Music is the universal language.

A - It is. Music, there's no vocals to screw it up. Now, it's different today because, like I said, I've been been to Japan thirty-one times. If you go over there, and I did most of my travel in the '90s and 2000s. You go over there in a more modern era and everything's got subtitled English for signs. All the young people learn English as a second language, but a lot of the older people didn't speak a lick of English. So, my argument about The Ventures probably doesn't hold today, but I'm pretty certain it did back in the early '60s. The Ventures were monsters in Japan. I think it's fair to say they were one of the most popular bands in history in Japan twenty years ago. (1999). Now today it may be different because everybody under the sun is playing there, but back then The Ventures were monsters. They got a lot of awards from the Japanese government for culture they brought over there. A lot of hits over there. It was all great for The Ventures. The bad news is, and I always argued this with them, 'cause I always talked to Don Wilson about this, they'd go over there (Japan) every summer at the expense of touring here (the United States) for the summer where there's a lot of outdoor festivals and everybody's touring big time in the summer, playing the outdoor amphitheatres. So, I think it was a good thing and a bad thing the way it worked out.

Q - Besides Japan, what other countries were The Ventures performing in?

A - I think they occasionally played in Mexico. I'd have to look, but I think they went to Europe maybe once or twice. Not a lot, but clearly when they were on the roll they performed more around the United States. I remember in the '70s and '80s I probably saw them a half dozen times in the Cleveland and Detroit area. Back in the '60s I was kind of too young to be going to Rock concerts, but Nokie (Edwards) would tell me the story about how they would travel in a motor home. That was their tour bus. They actually traveled in what sounded to me like a school bus. Nokie told me how they traveled with Johnny Rivers one time and they're like all on this school bus. So, these guys made the rounds in the United States a lot back in the '60s.

Q - In 1974, Herman's Hermits were traveling around in a Winnebago in the U.S.

A - Sure. People today are using tour buses, but not most of the Classic Rock bands that are out there. Just to give you an example, when we toured, some of the wives would come along. So, you got the four guys in the band and then you've got a couple other, let's call it the road crew. So we would pick up two or three mini vans. We used to like the Dodge mini vans because you could configure 'em. So, let's just say we were running up the East Coast, we'd all fly in from different cities and pick up these little mini vans and that's how we'd tour around. I mean, the bad news is we'd be sleeping in hotels every night. So tour buses have a real advantage obviously because you can feel like you're sort of at home. It's a rolling hotel room. By the way, those things are not cheap. They're like one to two million dollars. But I think there's a big business in Nashville that basically leases these things out. Why do you think these tickets are so damn expensive for these shows?

Q - It's the production.

A - Yeah. I know a guy name of Terry Lawless. He was actually the keyboard player for U2 for a number of years. He would be in the pit. They brought their own stage. He wouldn't be up on the main level stage. He was telling me stories about all the buses. I don't remember the exact number. There was like ten tour buses and twenty or thirty 18-wheelers carrying these stages. I saw Queen with Adam Lambert about five years ago (2014). I swear to God I saw thirty semi-trucks at this venue all backed up there. When The Beatles played Shea Stadium they had five amplifiers and walked on stage. That's it, right? Not today.

Q - And tickets were $5.

A - Right. That's why you're paying so much money. When we toured with The Ventures they certainly had their own backline, but say we flew in to play B.B. King's in New York City. I would specify the backline very specifically of what everybody needed and wanted. I would specify the audio that I would prefer. I like Shure microphones and I have a way I like to mic the drums. So, I would specify all that. So, we didn't carry any of that. I carried the pedals. I carried some electronics. We carried guitars. The drummer carried cymbals and that's about it.

Q - And the snare drum.

A - Yeah. I should say that's one thing drummers always want is a spare snare. Leon used a double kick pedal, but I don't think we carried that all the time because that's pretty easy to get.

Q - In you band, you play, but you don't do any road managing or tour managing?

A - In my band I basically do everything. I do all the booking. I do all the productions. Just to give you an example: If we go play an outdoor festival here we'll get anywhere between $800 and $2,000 to play it. There's four guys in the band. I don't take any money out of that. I own the sound system. I bought a $10,000 QSCPA. They're in Southern California. It's a real high-end audio company. It's Quilter Sound Company. This stuff is so technically advanced to everything that's out there. Nokie Edwards told me one time, "Don't ever forget what your product is and that sound." Local bands, a lot of times, have to bring their own backline and P.A. So, to answer your question, I do all the bookings. We run all the business through Venture X Music. I keep a separate account within that so I do my stuff in there.

Q - What's the name of your band?

A - Surf Zup. It's a play on words. I'm doing it because I love it and I get my fix for Surf music. With The Ventures, I've got to be brutally honest, the coolest thing about it was I have a Ventures business card and I have instant credibility with anybody. I'm with The Ventures. I made so many friends with Rock stars because they like me and I'm with The Ventures.

Q - Who'd you make friends with?

A - Oh, my God. Jeff Cook from Alabama is a good friend. He's a lead guitar player. Alan White, the drummer from Yes. Skunk Baxter certainly. Roger Fisher from Heart. I haven't seen him, actually I saw him briefly, but I haven't seen him in about fifteen years. While I would call these people friends, it starts to fade with time. I don't bother them. Do you know Los Straitjackets?

Q - No.

A - Los Straitjackets opened for us a couple of times. I love those guys. They're actually good friends. In my opinion, they are the best instrumental band in the United States right now. They recorded a lot of albums and they're really good. They're wacky. I call them The Ventures on steroids. Look, man for man they're not as good musicians as The Ventures were because there aren't two people on the planet who were as good as Nokie Edwards. I could tell you a thousand stories about Nokie. He was amazing and let's just say he was good friends with Chet Atkins, and Chet knew who he was. That right there should tell you a lot about it. In terms of friends, I met so many people along the way.

Q - Go back to what you were talking about earlier. There's a group out there calling themselves The Ventures with no original members?

A - Yeah. That is correct. Here's what happened: When Mel Taylor died back in the '90s, The Ventures were without a drummer. Nokie Edwards, Bob Bogle and Don Wilson were still there. So, they needed a drummer. Prior to that there were guys that filled in every now and then, like the drummer from The Knack. I can't remember his name, but he filled in for awhile. There were other guys that filled in, but The Ventures had to replace the drummer. So, Leon Taylor, who at the time I think was fifty, maybe forty-five, I can't remember, he replaced his dad Mel when Mel passed away. So, up through the modern times then Leon was the drummer. When Bob Bogle started getting sick back in the 2000s, there was a guy that The Ventures used for some recordings. I guess I'll call him a session guy, but honestly he wasn't that good. He was just somebody that got friendly with The Ventures. So he was anointed to be the bass player. His name is Bob Spalding. So now you've got Leon and Spalding in the band, two non-original Ventures. Basically sidemen. I hate to be so harsh, but that's really what they were, sidemen. Then when Nokie started getting sick and couldn't do it anymore, Don (Wilson) retired. Leon was the drummer and Spaldig, who was the bass player, then sort of got control over the band and they added two kids. I think Spalding's son is in it and then there's another guy. I don't know who he is. So now you've got two people with no association to the past history of The Ventures and then you've got these other two guys who were sidemen. Look, I like Leon, but he's not an original. I know that they toured Japan last year (2008) and I know that they're out. So, they're using The Ventures' name, but they're really not.

Q - Somebody dropped the ball, maybe Don Wilson? He should have copyrighted the name so they'd have to come to him for permission to carry on.

A - They do have the permission of Don Wilson. But here's what the problem with that is: Don Wilson is 86 years old. His cognitive abilities are not what they used to be. He'll never play live again. I guess they're paying some royalty to use The Ventures' name, but again, it doesn't matter. They're not The Ventures. I do volunteer work here in the Detroit area for a really high end charity, really high end. Maybe the most premier charity event of the year here, it's called Star's Guitars. We haven't done it in two years and there's no reason for that. The charity gets signed guitars by Rock stars and auctions them off at this event. There's a nice dinner and then we culminate that with a Rock concert. I handle all of the Rock concerts, the total production of it, okay? So, I book the bands using my agent in Florida for all of this. A couple of years ago I said I can get any band you want, but it's a charity and we can't afford half a million dollars to bring Keith Urban in here, or whatever he wants. So, I gave a list of bands I thought would be good. They gave me a list. I started going down 'em. At the top of the list, they wanted Foreigner. So I had my agent contact Foreigner and Mick Jones and Lou Gramm were not in the band, lead guitar player, lead singer, right? No other originals. All session guys from L.A. are in Foreigner and they wanted $100,000. I'm not knocking 'em 'cause they're phenomenal musicians. They may be musically better than the original band. That's what happens to these guys. They wanted $100,000. We wound up hiring Creedence Clearwater Revisited, not Revival. Cosmo (Doug Clifford), the drummer and the bass player, I forget his name (Stu Cook) were in the band. Forgerty was not in the band. They got $67,000 from us. So that's the crazy world. Here's the flip of that. I kind of know Peter Noone. I met him. I can't say we're friends. We actually were on a split bill with him a couple of times. Great guy. Great singer. Still got his voice. He's got a band. None of 'em are original guys, but they look the part. They're probably better than the original musicians around him. They're out there as Peter Noone And Herman's Hermits. I don't have a problem with that. It's a little different 'cause he advertises himself as Peter Noone And Herman's Hermits. They're really good. Really good. But getting back on point. This is not The Ventures. My lead guitar player will blow away the lead guitar player that's in the so-called current Ventures. The Ventures shouldn't exist without a lead guitar player that people go, "Wow!" Do you know what I mean?

Q - The sad part is, nobody cares.

A - Well, that's what I struggle with. I know what you're saying. For me, it's just not good enough. The problem with The Ventures thing is they're getting top dollar for it. I say you can hire us for one quarter of the money and it would be just as good.

Q - If you only had the name Ventures Two!

A - Yeah. You know, I thought of that. You know what? I'm having fun doing what I'm doing.

Q - I almost forgot to ask, did The Ventures have a tour manager in those early days?

A - Oh, absolutely. I don't remember the time frame. I just know that I met a couple of those guys a long time ago. I met one guy who was the tour manager in the '80s. You know what? I don't know that they were evolved, that Rock bands were evolved enough to have tour managers other than the high end ones. Honestly, I don't know.

Q - A tour manager was kind of a new job position.

A - That's my point. When Nokie and Bob and Don would tell me stories, it sounded like they were doing everything themselves. Sometimes they were traveling in station wagons 'cause they told me stories about the '60s when they'd go across country and they'd play these clubs that had the chicken wire. They used to play those places out in the lower mid-west. But like you said, I think that position was sort of a new one as things got more complicated 'cause let's face it, when The Beatles played The Cavern Club, they'd bring their amps and maybe a drum kit in and just start playing. I was just blown away by the simplicity of them playing Shea Stadium. They walked through the crowd with their guitars, get in there, they take a few minutes and plug in and they start playing! (laughs) My God! It takes me two hours to set up my stage with P.A. and do ring out sound system. For a little, rinky dink Surf band it takes two hours!

Official Website: www.SurfzupBand.com

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