Gary James' Interview With John Lennon's Attorney
Jay Bergen
Jay Bergen, John Lennon's attorney, has written the untold story of the courtroom drama involving Morris Levy and John Lennon. You'll read details about the case you've never read before in his book, Lennon, The Mobster And The Lawyer The Untold Story (Devault Graves Books)
Jay Bergen spoke with us about his book, and John Lennon.
Q - Jay, you actually saw The Beatles in concert at Forest Hills Stadium on August 28th, 1964. What was that concert like?
A - Oh, yeah. I think there were about 16,000 fans there. It was in the main tennis area where the U.S. Open was, before it moved to Flushing, and other tennis tournaments were held. You could hear the band. They landed in the back of one of the tennis courts in a helicopter because Forest Hill was a club and there were a number of other courts there. There were no seats on the floor. So it was just kind of people in this horseshoe stadium, seated. But yeah, you could hear them very clearly. It was a great show. This was in the early days. I think the tickets were $3.50 or $5.00. Something like that. This was in the early days of groups touring.
Q - You saw Elvis in concert in 1957 and John asked you what that was like. Do you know if John ever saw Elvis perform?
A - I don't know. The Elvis that I saw, I think it was in April of 1957, was the real Elvis, the basic Elvis. This was before he went into the Army. He had made a couple of movies. I wasn't interested in the movies as much as I was interested in seeing him live. This is before Colonel Parker turned him into the Las Vegas Elvis. So, he was your basic Rock 'n' Roller.
Q - Which was a great time to see him!
A - Yes, it was.
Q - As a Beatles fan, when you first met John, did he give off a certain vibe? Did you have the feeling you were in the presence of someone who was more than just a musician?
A - No. He was just a person. He was John Lennon. He was very upset about this bootleg album that sounded like it was about to be released. What I wanted to do was learn as much about the facts as I could while we were sitting there (in Capitol Records' office in 1975) because the Capitol lawyers didn't know a lot of the details at that point. So, I was just interested in finding out as much of the facts as I could. As a trial lawyer I learned very early in my career that most cases are all about facts. You have to get the facts down really cold, the good and the bad facts. I always ask clients to tell me everything. The last thing we want is surprises in court, or in some affidavit that's filed. So, that was it. We pretty quickly got to the point where I asked John how long it would take to finish the album 'cause he had been telling us he had been working on it quite a long time, since back in October when they recorded the basic tracks with his band, basically the same band he used on "Walls And Bridges". He said, "I could finish it in two days." And that was a decision to go ahead. The Capitol (Records) lawyers were talking about the possibility of suing Morris (Levy) and trying to get an injunction. I discouraged that because starting litigation is just like starting a war. Once you start the litigation you don't know what direction it's going to go in. You don't know what the other side, who you sue, is going to do. So, I just thought it was just better if John wanted to finish the album, to get it out there. See what would happen then.
Q - How many copies did that album sell? Do you know?
A - The bootleg?
Q - Yes.
A - I think it was about 1,250. I'm pretty sure it was 1,250.
Q - Would that mean it's a collector's album now?
A - That's what I'm told. When the case was over and Morris paid John the damages he owed him he also had to turn over the unsold "Roots" album, and I took a couple of boxes of those albums up to the Dakota in 1977 and gave them to Yoko. She was quite surprised that when I called and told her that I had those albums that were part of the judgment where Levy of course could not sell them anymore and was forced by the court to turn them over to us and then I was going to bring these albums up and give them to her, give them to John. She said, "Oh, you're going to give them to me, to us?" I said, "Yes." I think she thought since they'd been mistreated by a lot of people who they trusted in the past, that I was going to keep those albums and then start selling them someday. I don't remember how many of them there were. There weren't that many, but I know there were a couple of boxes and there were also 8-track tapes.
Q - You have to wonder if they're still in her possession.
A - I would assume that they're still part of the Lennon memorabilia that they have. They're probably stored in the Dakota.
Q - How much did John know about Morris Levy?
A - Very little. He knew that he had a reputation for stealing royalties. That was pretty widely known in the business, managers, agents, other publishers, recording company executives. Everybody knew that Morris was a bad guy and that he was hooked up with the Mafia. He stole recording royalties and other publishing royalties. He put his name on "Ya Ya". He's listed as one of the writers on "Ya Ya", but didn't have anything to do with that, with writing the song.
Q - Did you know that Wikipedia refers to Morris Levy as an American entrepreneur in the fields of Jazz clubs, music publishing and the independent record industry?
A - Well, he was an entrepreneur. He started the famous Jazz clubs on Times Square in, I think it was 1949. He started that with Mob money. A lot of the nightclubs in New York in those days and in other major cities were owned by the Mob. I mean, The Latin Quarter was owned by Barbara Walters' father, Lou Walters, that was owned by the Mob. I think she has talked about that or written about that.
Q - For decades, J. Edgar Hoover maintained there was no Mafia.
A - Well, J. Edgar Hoover had a lot of problems, (laughs) in addition to being a cross-dresser.
Q - That's just a myth, unless you have more information.
A - I don't have any information. I just think it was widely known. (NOTE: According to Kenneth D. Ackerman of The Washington Post, "The story that Hoover, a lifelong bachelor, participated in cross-dressing, all male, sex parties in New York hotel rooms as reported by British writer Anthony Summers in a 1993 biography, has been widely debunked by historians. The story's source, the wife of a businessman and Hoover confidante, had a grudge from a contested divorce, and other investigations of the story came up empty.")
Q - So, John won this lawsuit against Morris Levy. How do we know that Levy and/or his associates didn't retaliate against John on December 8th, 1980? There are people who believe there is more to the story of what happened to John that night than just Mark David Chapman. And what would you say to that?
A - I would say that's nonsense. I don't know anything about the details. That just sounds like one of those conspiracy theories about the Kennedy assassination and all the rest of it. I would think it's nonsense. If Morris was going to get even with John some way, I don't think he would have waited until 1980.
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