Gary James' Interview With The Writer/Director/Producer Of Herb Alpert Is...
John Scheinfeld



There's a new documentary out on the life of Herb Alpert. Written, directed and produced by John Scheinfeld, the documentary explores not only Herb Alpert's musical career, but his earliest years as well. For those who did not grow up with the music of Herb Alpert as this interviewer did, Herb Alpert was the frontman/founder of Herb Alpert And The Tijuana Brass and the "A" in A&M Records. John Scheinfeld spoke with us about his film.

Q - John, I may be one of the few interviewers, maybe the only interviewer who can tell you I saw Herb Alpert And The Tijuana Brass at the Onondaga County War Memorial in Syracuse, New York on August 16th, 1966.

A - No kidding!

Q - And Sergio Mendes And Brasil '66 opened the show.

A - Yeah. Right.

Q - So, how many people can tell you that?

A - I haven't heard that from anyone. Have you seen the film?

Q - Yes, I have.

A - That footage that is in the Tijuana Brass section from Herb on the road and Herb in the bus, the plane and hotel room with Sergio Mendes was documentary footage that was shot during that tour. Actually, Sergio opened for Herb into '67 as well. What Herb did is he had a documentary film crew follow then around with the idea I think of doing some kind of documentary or TV special or something, but it never happened. That footage and the sound elements were all in boxes in this basement of Herb's building for years and nobody was doing anything with them. So, we kind of went in there and he graciously allowed us to transfer the film, some of the film, and look at it. Anyway, we put those sequences together from that film from that tour.

Q - As a Herb Alpert fan, I'm just wondering what ended up on the cutting room floor?

A - Of our documentary?

Q - Yes.

A - A whole hour ended up on the cutting room floor! Our first cut was quite long because this man has a very big life.

Q - And I wanted to see more of that big life!

A - Oh, I'm so glad. There were a good five or six sequences that I really wanted to keep in the film. It's painful to have to make these cuts. You can only have it at a certain length. So, we're running at about 98 minutes now, maybe 100 (minutes) with the credits, and that's really about all we could manage at the time. So yes, there was much more stuff and maybe one day it will come out as bonus material. We'll see.

Q - Is this documentary going to be shown on Pay TV or is it going to be a theatrical release?

A - Well, it was intended to be a theatrical release. We were going to do film festivals and then we were going to be in theatres in May of this year (2020), but the virus really put the stop to that. What film distributors have to do is to be very creative and find new ways to get the film out there. What they're doing, and it's only the second time it's been done, the world premier is on Facebook Live. So, it's a one night, one time only screening for free. Herb and I are going to do a Q/A afterward. (Note: This event occurred October 1st, 2020). Then the next day it's gonna show up on i-tunes and Amazon Prime for rent/purchase or viewing. Whether it's going to show up on HBO or Netflix is to be determined. But, this way is a sort of very creative way to get it out there for those of us who love going to the movies and not being able to go and don't know when we'll be able to go again. Herb's audience, as you can imagine, is older and they're not going to the movie theatre any time soon. So that is kind of going to take that option off the table for us.

Q - You could have had it made available in Part One, Part Two, Part Three and so on, on Pay TV, couldn't you?

A - We could have I suppose. You know, I don't know what the appetite would have been for that one way or the other. I just always saw in my head that it was a movie, not a TV thing. Herb I know had been approached numerous times over the years to tell his story in a documentary and he was just never ready to do that. He's the kind of guy that is always looking forward. He doesn't like to look back. But for whatever reason, for whatever was going on in his life when I went out there to talk to him about my vision for the film, he was ready to tell his story. But I didn't want to do a straight ahead biography: He was born here, he did this, he did this. What struck me about Herb, and it's really what prompted the title, Herb Alpert Is... is he's many different things and many different things to many different people. He's certainly the great performer and seller of millions of records that you saw in 1966. He's a very talented A&R guy who discovered The Carpenters, Sergio Mendes, Peter Frampton, Sting and The Police and made them part of the A&M family. He's an entrepreneur. He co-founded with Jerry Moss arguably the most successful, independent record label of all time in the music business. He's an artist whose sculptures and paintings are on display in galleries and museums around the world. And just as important is he's a philanthropist. In the last ten years he's given away probably $150 million and more to Arts and Education programs around the country to give young people opportunities that he did not have as a young person. And so, I've got to tell you, looking at this story, this is the kind of guy that needs to be celebrated. This the kind of subject we all love to have as film makers. But I think also, and it's only gotten more intense as time has gone along, is there's a lot of darkness in our country (United States) at the moment, a lot of challenges and difficult times that have only been exacerbated by the politics and by the virus. And I'm tired of it. I wanted to make a film that would be upbeat and inspiring and uplifting and nostalgic and fun and all of that. That's why I was so pleased to have the opportunity to make this film, 'cause I think that's the kind of film I wanted to create. I think this is the right film at the right time. You saw the film Quest Love sort of say it, which is it's the happiest music on earth. You can't listen to Herb's music and not have a smile on your face. Don't we all need that these days?

Q - Yes. Herb can also take that trumpet and put you in a sad mood as well.

A - Yeah, very much so. Yes, there can be a melancholy to his work. The other thing I'm sure you found is his sound is so distinctive. Miles Davis said it, "You hear three notes and you know it's Herb." You can almost spot him anywhere.

Q - I interviewed Steve Marcone of Jam Factory and I asked him why no horn band could duplicate the sound of Herb Alpert And The Tijuana Brass. He told me, "To tell you the truth, I don't think anybody wanted to as a trumpet player. They never respected it. It was too commercial. He was not a very good player."

A - (laughs)

Q - I'd never heard anybody put Herb Alpert down before. That kind of floored me.

A - That sounds more like revisionist history than fact, I think.

Q - For a group that was as popular as Herb Alpert And The Tijuana Brass, there's been very little written or documented about Herb and the band. You were just fortunate to come along at the right time.

A - Yeah. I think it had to be that. I've done a lot documentaries on iconic artists, many of whom are no longer with us. So, having access to your subject is just a wonderful thing. I had to earn his trust and I had to create an environment in which he would feel comfortable opening up and revealing himself. One of the things I learned about Herb in the course of this making the film was he's better walking and talking than he is just sitting in a chair. You know, traditional interview style, which is why in the film we take him back to the house where he grew up and back to his elementary school where he had that very personality shaping experience with the teacher. And we take him back to the A&M lot, which is such a magical place. He just felt so inspired being in those places. He really opened up and told us a lot. It's not dirt. It's stories about life. I think people who come and see Herb Alpert Is... like you had the opportunity to do, you're seeing the real Herb Alpert. There's no facade about him. There's no like public Herb, private Herb. What you see on screen is who he is. And the word I would use most is authentic. He is just a very real, grounded person with whom you can have a conversation. He's very self deprecating. He does not take himself so seriously. He's a very sensitive artist.

Q - You're a pretty young guy. When did you first hear Herb Alpert? Was it through your parents?

A - Well Gary, it's all my mother's fault. (laughs) She used to play Herb Alpert And The Tijuana Brass records around the house all the time when I was growing up. And she would dance. So, here I am seeing this adult woman dancing with all the energy and enthusiasm of a teenager. Hearing this music that was just so happy and upbeat, it always stayed with me. Even going through all the various phases of my own life and the music that I would like or not like. So, he was always on my radar. Maybe seven or eight years ago (2012, 2013) I thought I'll reach out to Herb and see if this is something he'd want to do, but I didn't do it at that time. But yes, it was always there. So when I had the opportunity to go talk to him, it was like, "Wow! Maybe I'm kind of reconnecting with something from my childhood and that's pretty cool." What I hope this film will do is shine a light on a guy that matters and we show why he matters and even that he can be an inspiration to young musicians today to follow your dream and don't let anybody tell you you can't.

Q - I've always thought that Herb Alpert And The Tijuana Brass were a band. I believe that his band helped him create that unique sound. You have an interview with John Pisano from The Tijuana Brass, but no Pat Senatore (bassist). Did you ask him to participate and did he decline?

A - No. He lives in Italy now. We could not get there nor he get here. But you know the truth is it's interesting Gary, as you saw in the film, the sound came from Herb, not from the band. In fact, he had four albums before he actually put together the touring band. The touring band was Senatore and Pisano and all those guys, but the sound was always Herb. In fact, on a lot of the records Herb played both trumpets that the other trumpet guy never played. So really it was the sound in his head that he was realizing on record. And what he did though because the sound and the records were so popular, they had to have a touring band. So that's why they put these guys together. I think you saw a little bit in the film. Herb is somewhat of an introvert and I think the idea of being up on stage was not his first choice in life. I think Jerry (Moss) and Joe Friesen and some of the other guys at A&M said, "No, you're the guy to get out there." So they put the band together. That's where those guys came in, but Herb was the guy.

Q - Pat Senatore told me at one point the band was going to get royalties on record sales, but when Herb's attorney caught wind of that, the deal was withdrawn.

A - I do know there was some profit sharing, that Herb did share some of the profits with the guys. I don't have all the details and it wasn't important for our film. But he's the most generous guy. I cannot tell you how many people I bumped into who told me stories about how unsolicited Herb would do kind things for them and their family. There were people that worked at A&M that were sort of down on their luck and he paid for their kids to go to college. Didn't want any credit, just did it. There were people whose medical bills were paid. So, that's kind of who he is. The story in the film you saw was he read in the paper that the Harlem School Of Arts was going to close. He said, "That's not right," and so he's put them on solid financial footing. All those young people have had some opportunities that they might not have had if the thing had closed.

Q - I applaud him for that. Schools today would appear to be all about sports, not education, and certainly not the Arts.

A - Yes. He contributes to probably thirty or forty schools of one kind or another. And these kids are better off for it. That's him. Again, he's very shy about it. He doesn't go out looking for the publicity. He does it just 'cause it's the right thing to do. I admire that. I think that speaks well for him.

Q - At one point in the 1960s Herb Alpert suffered a nervous breakdown. He would hold press conferences in cities and be asked his opinion about world affairs. He was not as comfortable with that as say John Lennon was. In your film you have Herb saying he wanted to throw his trumpet in the ocean and at a concert in Germany he saw himself in the audience, looking on stage. Was that when he suffered a nervous breakdown?

A - Yes, and I was looking for a way to get into that period. We were rummaging around in Herb's vault one day and we came across this video tape. It just said, "Interview." We didn't know what it was. So we put it up and we looked at it. It was a forty-five minute interview with Herb on the cliffs of Malibu, overlooking the beach that was intended to be part of his third TV special in 1969, The Brass Are Coming! But it was not used. So, no one had ever seen this. Herb had even forgotten it was there. But what you see in our film is a couple of excerpts from that where clearly he was struggling with his words. He was struggling with his feelings. He was struggling with his career. He was struggling with his life. There's one moment where he just can't find the words. And as a film maker, to me that was a great way to let the audience know that there's something going on here, that he's struggling with something. And of course we go on to explain what it was. But that was the time period, yes. Exactly.

Q - What I found so interesting is when Herb said "I'm rich. I'm famous and I'm miserable." He didn't realize like so many celebrated musicians of the era what he was getting himself into. And then he took his stardom one step above that and started his own record label. That's just too much responsibility. Couldn't that be why he suffered a nervous breakdown?

A - I would say that. I think there was a lot of pressure to put out new albums. I think there was a lot of pressure to tour. There was a lot of pressure to kind of carry the record company on his shoulders, even though Jerry was there. Then there were personal things, his first marriage and parenthood. There was just a lot going on for him and it's hard for any of us to say exactly why somebody has this kind of experience. I think it does tell us something about Herb, that he was open enough to share that with me and that we were able to put it in the film. Again, that's part of him being so authentic. It's all about what's the truth. What really happened? That seems to be his approach to many different things in life.

Q - Gino Vannelli told me he wanted to sign with A&M Records. So, Gino and his brother staked out A&M Records and when they saw Herb come out of one of the doors they ran up to him and got a demo tape right into his hands.

A - (laughs)

Q - I guess one of Gino Vannelli's singles was one of the biggest selling singles in A&M's history.

A - Well, here's the story that I heard, and I can't tell you that it's true: I heard when Prince first came to L.A. he set up a sound system across from A&M and blasted his demo reel, hoping somebody would come out, and they didn't at first. But then someone did come out and they actually thought about him, but they thought too long and Warner Bros. sort of swept in and signed him. Doesn't that kind of speak to how important A&M was and what it meant to a lot of young artists, that this was the kind of company you wanted to be with?

Q - It certainly does. I really enjoyed your film, John.

A - So let's get the word out and I'd love as many people as possible to see this film.

© Gary James. All rights reserved.

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