Gary James' Interview With Ashley Talent International's
Mark Heyman



He's the man whose represented and contributed to the success of so many well-known artists. We're talking Quiet Riot, Journey, The Romantics, Autograph, Blackfoot, Skid Row, Slaughter, UFO, MSG (Michael Schenker Group), Vince Neil, B.B. King, The Scorpions, The Allman Brothers and Ted Nugent. He is Mark Heyman, who just happens to be the CEO of Ashley Talent International. We spoke with Mark about his background, the people he's known along the way, and the agency he's now affiliated with, Ashley Talent International.

Q - Why is this agency called Ashley Talent International? Is there someone in the company with the last name Ashley?

A - No. When we originally created this company our offices were in Ann Arbor, Michigan and were located on Ashley Street, which is a block down the main street from Ann Arbour, and I had a partner at the time. Actually, I had two partners. They wanted to call it Ashley Street Talent, okay? And we did call it Ashley Street Talent at the very beginning. As things got moving I went to them and said, "Look, Ashley Street Talent sounds like a very localized operation. Quite frankly we're booking tours all over the world. We're booking in Europe, Latin America, Indonesia, Malaysia, as well as Canada, the U.S. and Mexico." So I said, "Let's change the name." Of course I came from the mail room at the William Morris office in New York. I was good friends with Ira Blacker and Sal Safian, may he rest in peace, and Jeff Franklin, who's still alive, and they created American Talent International, A.T.I. They had Rod Stewart, The Faces, Bob Seger, and several other bands. At the same time there was a company called Ashley Famous Artists, okay? Named after Ted Ashley. So, there was Ashley Famous Artists. There was American Talent International. I said, "Why don't we call the company, sort of as a tribute to those, Ashley Talent International L.L.C. which would awaken A.T.T and the Ashley name." And so we decided to change to Ashley Talent International and that's how that evolved.

Q - Jeff Franklin had no problem with you using the name A.T.I. then?

A - Jeff Franklin hasn't been in the agency business for years and years. Jeff Franklin was principally a television producer. I've run into him several times and there's no reason for him to take issue because our company is not called American Talent International. It's called Ashley Talent International. So why would Jeff Franklin have any objections to that? His name is not Jeff Ashley.

Q - This agency of yours is more than just a booking agency. You look into record deals, publishing deals, merchandising and sponsorships. But wait a minute. I've been told that record companies are a thing of the past.

A - I don't understand the question.

Q - Do you try and get some of clients record deals?

A - We do get our clients record deals and record companies I doubt are a thing of the past. There's just far fewer reasons to be in that business in terms of profitability than there are now thanks to the internet.

Q - If you do get someone a record deal, is a record deal worth it anymore?

A - Absolutely. Oh yeah, because it's great with the proper company. It's a terrific marketing tool.

Q - If they take your publishing, your marketing, and 50% of your gate should you become popular...

A - That's not a deal. I would never make a record deal where I would give away my client's publishing. I would never make a deal where I'd give away a portion of my client's personal appearances income. That's not the way you do it.

Q - So I guess it all depends on who's negotiating the deal and who the artist is. The record company can ask for anything, but that doesn't mean they're going to get it.

A - Right.

Q - I recall something you told me back in 1986 when we first talked. You said, "If you stand still, you're really falling back."

A - Absolutely. There's no such thing as standing still. These are shark infested waters, my friend, and every band and every performer on the way up is a shark. They have to be looked after constantly, fed constantly, marketed constantly. It's a constant, in my eyes, work of art that these artists are looked after properly until they become Taylor Swift.

Q - That's very hard to do.

A - Tell me about it. But, Louis Messina has done it. If you look up Taylor Swift you'll see that she has no agent. What she has is Louis Messina. What Louis Messina does is he produces all of her shows and that is the main thrust of her upward climb. Now that she's established pretty much on top of the industry, I would think if not literally then virtually, she has more doors open to her, motion pictures, TV. She started out as a Country artist and Louis, who has several other artists that he's the show producer for, took her under his wing and one thing led to another and here she is, I'd say pretty much the biggest name in the personal appearance business.

Q - As a producer, he's producing her stage shows then?

A - He's producing all of her live shows, right. He's the promoter, the marketer, the guy who arranges all the production. Well, he and his staff. He has a staff that services three or four of his production entitles. I don't want to call them clients, although maybe he refers to them as clients. But I have a lot of admiration for Louis because what he does is he's put his money where his mouth is and made an enormous success. There are similar success stories, but nothing like the caliber of what Louis Messina has accomplished. Irving Azoff is a close second, but Irving Azoff is a manager.

Q - And a former record guy.

A - Well, he's a former lots of things. He ran Live Nation for awhile.

Q - What's your background? Where did you grow up? What state?

A - I'm a Jersey boy originally, but I moved to New York City after college and started in the mail room of the William Morris (Agency) office with people like Jeff Wald...

Q - And Frank Barsalona?

A - No. Frank Barsalona was never in the mail room at William Morris, I assure you. Elliot Roberts was in the mail room and several others, including David Geffen. That's how I started.

Q - What did you take in college? Were you a Business major?

A - Actually I was Pre-law.

Q - When you went to William Morris in 1965, they were paying you $50 a week. Did you travel back and forth from New Jersey to New York? Could you afford an apartment in New York City?

A - I eventually got a room mate who was also in the mail room at William Morris and we put what money we could together and got an apartment on 11^th Street and Avenue Of The Americas, which is Greenwich Village.

Q - When William Morris hired you, what type of questions did they ask you?

A - Actually there were no kinds of questions that they asked me. I was recommended by a very well-known, successful figure in the industry and I just got the job. The person that put my name in the hat told them about me and what my history was because prior to going to William Morris I had a summer job at my brother's retail record store. We used to have these three customers come in once a week. The three of them would buy all the Top Twenty singles. Those were the days when you had the Top Fifty singles. Those were the 45s with the big hole in the middle. Those three customers were Gerry Goffin, his wife Carole King, and Don Kirshner.

Q - Good customers!

A - Right. We eventually, my brother and I, got close to them. I used to go to Carole King's house quite often at the time she was living in West Orange, New Jersey. I heard "Locomotion" for the first time in Donny Kirshner's house. He played it and said, "Tell me what you think of this song." I knew it was a smash when I heard those first few bars.

Q - He played you the Little Eva version obviously.

A - That's really, for my money, the only version.

Q - You didn't like Grand Funk's version?

A - What I liked or didn't like didn't matter. The Little Eva version is the original, indelible version that was the monster hit. Everybody else's version is second best to that in my book.

Q - Sometimes people come along and do a remake of a song that actually sounds better.

A - But that didn't happen with "Locomotion".

Q - I was talking about Frank Barsalona earlier. What kind of a guy was Frank Barsalona?

A - What happened was there was a shuffle at the William Morris Agency. I was an assistant agent there at the time and the shuffle came down. I wanted to go to the Contemporary Music Department, which was Rock 'n' Roll. I was told there was an open position as an assistant to one of the well-known agents. So, I threw my name in the hat and was told I had a shot and it was mine and then it wasn't because the guy who vacated the position decided to come back. Where I was as an assistant is the Concert Department, they got a replacement in there. So I was third man out, odd man out. "So, you'll be a floater for awhile and then we'll find you a spot," but I didn't want to do that. I wanted to go to Rock 'n' Roll and there was an opening over at Premier Talent, which was the company owned and operated by Frank Barsalona. I got a position at Premier Talent and became an assistant agent over there. And of course if you know anything about Premier Talent you know that they handled the biggest Rock attractions of that time.

Q - And Frank Barsalona had a better attitude towards Rock acts.

A - Frank Barsalona was my guy. He was the person that really taught me how to be an agent.

Q - How long did you work for Frank Barsalona?

A - Tough to remember. Maybe five years.

Q - Did you know Wally "Famous" Amos?

A - Wally Amos was a good friend of mine. He left being an agent (at William Morris) to discover chocolate chip cookies called Famous Amos cookies. Wally is a terrific guy. Very, very clever. Very sharp. Just a terrific guy.

Q - Was he in that Contemporary Music Department?

A - He was part of that department, sure.

Q - You knew Bill Graham?

A - I knew Bill Graham. Bill Graham offered me a position with his company. He was opening up an agency called The Millard Agency and he came to me and wanted me to be an agent for him. At the time I was buying for almost every university East of the Mississippi, making a lot of money, so I recommended to Bill that he take my assistant, whose name was Chip Rachlin, and make him an agent, which he did. But I knew Bill well, may he rest in peace.

Q - A very colorful character.

A - Bill was one of a kind. He broke the mold.

Q - Did you also do some work with The Allman Brothers?

A - After Premier I went to work for Associated Booking Corp. (ABC)

Q - Didn't Capricorn Records have their own booking agency?

A - Yeah, they sure did, but that has nothing to do with my involvement with The Allmans. It's funny. I almost went to work for that agency. Jonny Podell was an agent at Associated Booking. He was the responsible agent for Phil Walden's interests, one of which was The Allman Brothers. I booked some dates on 'em as an agent.

Q - This agency of yours, A.T.I. is in Michigan. I take it you no longer have to be in a music city like Los Angeles or New York anymore, do you?

A - Well no, you don't have to be. There are those that will make an argument that being in New York or L.A. is more beneficial, or Nashville. But you have to remember, I'm on in years and this is sort of a small, boutique company. You have a handful of very good clients. Very loyal. And that's really all I need.

Official Website: AshleyTalentInternational.com

© Gary James. All rights reserved.

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