Gary James' Interview With Michael Jahnz Of
Richrath Project 3:13



Gary Richrath was an important part of the success story of REO Speedwagon. That's Gary playing those classic parts on songs such as "Take It On The Run", "Golden Country" and "Ridin' The Storm Out". Gary Richrath passed awy in 2015, but his music lives on in the group Richrath Project 3:13. Lead singer Michael Jahnz spent a considerable amount of time with Gary Richrath. Their efforts can be heard on the new album "L.A. Is Mine" (Dark Star/SONY/Orchard UMG). Michael Jahnz talked with us about Gary Richrath, the new album, "L.A. Is Mine", and the Richrath Project 3:13.

Q - Michael, you may consider this a rather silly question, but I'm going to ask you anyway. The band could have been called The Richrath Project, but then you have the 3:13 after that. Is that a reference to a certain song?

A - There's actually some songs that are really close to that. 3:13 was before the songs of Gary and myself. When I first met Gary in the late '80s he was very intrigued with my vocal ability. This is when he was still in REO and he was doing demos for the new REO album. We met and he asked me to start doing some demos with him. I had another band in Thousand Oaks, California and he was in Newburg Park at the time. And so we started working together. It just seemed that that 3:13 moment came up on the digital clocks in the morning. We always worked way too long and way too late and a lot of times had way too much fun. So, 3:13 just became one of those signature things that people who were very close to us kind of knew the 3:13 was kind of like a joke, a little humor, a little fun thing. But it was weird because it always came up on a clock. Later on we decided to use the 3:13 as the mystery thing that you're asking about. That's the first time anybody's asked me that question by the way. That's a good question. I think the closest song was 3:12 or 3:14, but it was really close. That was a song we did on the "Only The Strong Survive" album.

Q - The fact that I'm the first person to ask you about the name of the group...

A - I've been asked the question of what it's all about. You're the first person who actually thought of the song. That's a unique question for me. I've never been asked that. I've been asked, "What does that mean? Is it a Bible proverb?" We've done shows and when I stopped playing with Gary I used the Project 3:13 for awhile and people actually thought we were a Bible group or a Christian group. But that's the first time anyone has asked me if it's from the length of a song. I give you credit for that one. That was a good one.

Q - Well, thank you. What struck me about the 3:13 is you were maybe trying to keep a song at a certain length to get airplay.

A - You are correct about that. I remember when I first started writing songs with Gary, it was one of the things we discussed, making sure we get the songs down to a certain time. Otherwise you'll never get it played. Like I said, that's a good question. A good one. You got my brain going. It was one of those things that I've never been asked that kind of question for that particular thing. I've been asked about what it means, but not the length of the song. So, that's a real good one.

Q - Were you a fan of REO's music before you met Gary?

A - One of the albums I used to listen to a lot when I was a kid was "You Get What You Play For". That was one of my favorites, that live album. To this day we do a lot of the songs in our set. Sometime we can't do 'em all. We switch 'em off, but that was one of my favorite albums. So I guess I was a fan. But, I was a fan of all Classic Rock. Through the years I was more of a Progressive kind of a guy before I met Gary. I was into Rush. I actually played bass guitar for many years. That was my forte. I always sang, but I was more of a Progressive bassist, Geddy Lee, Chris Squire kind of thing.

Q - Had you ever seen REO in concert?

A - Yes, I did. I think the first time that I actually saw them was "Wheels Are Turning". That was the first time I saw the band play live.

Q - You were not what we would call in awe of Gary Richrath when you met him, were you?

A - I grew up in Wisconsin. So, when we moved out to Los Angeles we (Michael's band) ran into a lot of people. We hoped to get a record deal. When I first was approached by the situation we had a home in Thousand Oaks that we had as a band house and rehearsal studio. My drummer, who to this day we remain very close, he actually met Gary at a convenience store in Thousand Oaks. He said, "Hey! You're Gary Richrath!" "Yeah." He told him he was in a band in Thousand Oaks and if he'd ever like to come and jam with us... He said he'd love to. "I have some down time from REO and I'd like to come and jam." He came back and said he met Gary Richrath and he'd like to come jam. We all thought it was a pipe dream and that it was never going to happen. But sure enough, it did. He came by one Sunday, late afternoon, and wanted to jam with us. I was more in awe that he liked my vocals so much that he asked me to come and do demos with him. So, when I first went to his house and saw all the Platinum Records and Gold Records, I was more in awe of that than anything. Of course I wanted to do this. He was such a down to earth kind of guy that he didn't pull the Rock Star thing on me. He was more interested in working with me. So I felt very comfortable, but I also felt like, "Wow! There's a lot to learn from this guy. Look what he's done!" At that point they'd probably sold over twenty million records. So it was all kind of cool no matter how you look at it. I guess you could say in some degree I was in awe, but I'm not in awe of many people. The opportunity arose, that's why I couldn't pass it up.

Q - What years were you in Los Angeles?

A - We moved out there in 1985.

Q - That's when Hard Rock was really happening.

A - Well, it was more of the Glam Rock. The bands that were getting signed at the time were like Motley Crue, well, Motley Crue was already signed, but bands that had that Glam look. That's what we completed with on The Strip. We did Gazzarri's, The Roxy, The Whisky, The Troubadour. We played all those places. It was really terrible. I didn't like doing it at all. It was a rough thing. We ended up meeting Gary in the late '80s and that kind of changed the whole perspective. I kind of put that other stuff aside. Gary was pretty insistent that he liked my vocals a lot. He wanted me to put the bass down and start playing guitar. Gary really didn't know what was going on with REO. That was kind of like the time he had to do stuff. We worked on demos that he had worked on with other songwriters. And then he decided to put me on vocals on it. At one point in time I didn't know what I was going to do. Whatever he wanted me to do at that point, I was all for it. To sing with him was truly an honor.

Q - What was the name of the band that you were in that was performing in Los Angeles?

A - Vancouver.

Q - Weren't the clubs at that time engaging in this "Pay To Play" practice.

A - One hundred percent.

Q - You guys were really under pressure then.

A - Oh, it was terrible! What was interesting about it was we did a lot of Rush. When we were back in the mid-West we learned a lot of Rush together. It was a three piece band. When we went out to Los Angeles we went out thinking we were going to get a record deal. We were going to play our originals. You have to have a forty minute slot where you have to pay to play basically. When I say "Play To Pay", there like four bands a night. Each band would get a certain amount of tickets. You have to buy the tickets and have to sell the tickets to your friends or people you know. But everybody there was pretty much from everywhere else. You really didn't have a lot of friends. Hopefully you could sell the tickets and hopefully you could do well in the clubs. The more people you got in to see you, the more chances you had in probably getting a deal. It was really a tough thing, but we would go in there and probably be closer to an opening act because we couldn't afford a lot of those tickets. So, we were lower on the totem pole. But what happened was, we would throw in our originals and do like two Rush songs, and we were really good at playing Rush songs. So the crowds really went nuts over that because nobody was playing Rush at the time except Rush. The tribute thing didn't really happen until later days. There's a lot of tribute bands out there now, but at that time there was nobody doing it. So, people were pretty impressed. So a lot of the promoters that were doing the shows there kind of took us under their wing and said, "Hey! Let's do this with you. We'll cut the ticket sales down or give you a slot here or a slot there." We started working and people got along with us. Nobody in the band really had an attitude. There were a lot of attitudes out there in the '80s, (laughs) with guys who were thinking they were Rock Stars, and they really weren't Rock Stars. We were well liked.

Q - Would other members of famous Rock groups ever show up in the audience. Would someone from Poison show up, or one of the guys from Van Halen?

A - Yes. We had different people that we ran across. I don't remember everybody that was there at the time. We were more concerned about having the record companies come and see us. And they did. We were real close to getting a deal with Atlantic and WEA (Warner Elektra Asylulm) International. Previous to all of this, we worked with the band Badfinger. We opened for them on the East Coast. That's when I was 18. So, I went out there and did some shows with them. We had the A&R people from Atlantic and Warner Bros. and Elektra come look at us. We did a couple of showcases because of the Badfinger thing. Tony Kaye was playing keyboards. He played with Yes. We kind of had a friendship with him. So, he also hooked us up with Atlantic. Then they saw some of the crowds we were getting with the Rush stuff and it just went over well. We had it where we were real close to getting a deal with Atlantic and for whatever reason it kind of fell through. Then Gary popped into the scene. But it takes time no matter what you do. We were out there (Los Angeles) for three years before we really started getting things happening. The first couple of years were tough and then it started getting better and better and then another opportunity comes along. I don't know about anybody that came to see us. We already had relationships with certain people. That one person would be Tony Kay from Yes.

Q - I know you had a recording studio in Milwaukee. Did you have money in your pocket from that to survive those tough times in Los Angeles? You couldn't make any money in those clubs.

A - Right.

Q - How did you guys do it?

A - We actually had a management company that got together and asked us if we would be interested. We had a little bit of spark going with the Badfinger thing. We came back and did a lot of mid-Western shows. Then we found a management company that wanted to take us on and try to get us a record deal. So, they had some money. They rented a house. It was tough without actually having money coming in from music. You have to do what you got to do to survive. Those were the tough years. Those were real tough. Sometimes we had to get part-time jobs to continue the thing going.

Q - So, what part-time job did you get?

A - On, man. I worked at a restaurant. I cooked. I bar tended. I did whatever I could. Those were some of the interesting years. Everybody worked on and off at part-time jobs and then we went back to playing again. Once things started clicking in with the record deals and touring, that's when we ended up being able to quit.

Q - Now see, if you were working at a place where famous people came in, you could have had a business card made up and handed it out to promote the band. But I suppose that situation never presented itself, did it?

A - Well, the one place I was working at, I met some pretty interesting people. We lived in the Thousand Oaks, Westlake area. A lot of stars moved into Westlake. I met some really interesting people you'd never expect to meet.

Q - Famous people?

A - Yeah, famous people. Mickey Rooney, Zsa Zsa Gabor, the guy who did Marcus Welby, the guys from Emergency. I'm dating myself, so I hate to say that. (laughs) Some of the people who were there in the '80s were quite amazing. Even in that situation, Tommy Lee from Motley Crue and Heather Locklear when he was married to her, and they have a house in Westlake. They used to come into the restaurant I was at. There were a lot of people. It was interesting. Very interesting.

Q - How long did you know Gary Richrath?

A - Since the late '80s.

Q - You performed with him for how long?

A - Roughly about ten years on and off, because we were together from late 1988 through probably '95, '96. I moved back to Wisconsin in '97. Then I got a phone call from my drummer who was still out in Lost Angeles and he said Gary wants to do some more work with me. So, I called Gary and he flew out here (Los Angeles). He flew from his house in Peoria, where his family is from, and we got together back here in Wisconsin. I had a recording studio, just a demo studio, and we started working on new stuff. That was probably through '98, '99, 2000. Then we had an opportunity to do another record. Personal problems in normal life kind of got in-between what he was trying to do and what I was trying to do and I was more focused. And so we took a hiatus again. Probably 2013 is when I was approached by the record label to try and get something back together with Gary, and then he passed away in 2015. All through the years people approached me to try and get back with Gary, but it was hard. Toward the end he wasn't well, as you probably know, but he was a great guy. He was a wonderful, wonderful person. I think he was taken advantage of by some people who had more power and he ended up really having a tough time.

Q - What types of venues were you and Gary performing in?

A - We played everywhere. I think it was 1989 we had a few shows 'cause we finally got a band together that we used. My drummer, and then we had some other people in Los Angeles that got together and we did some shows. It went over so well there was a company that was associated originally with REO Baruck Consolo, their management company, and they got us a tour going up the West Coast. So, we went up all the way to Vancouver, Victoria Island, and we were doing every day. We were playing bars, theatres, festivals. We did everything. And then it kicked in really heavily and we were out for three or four months at a time. By the time the mid-West came around we were doing the summer festivals. So, the venues could have been a 200 seat club or a 5,000 seat outdoor venue. It was all different.

Q - That's what keeps a band on its toes, that variety.

A - Oh, it was great! Gary really wanted us, before we got serious about an album, to get really tight. That was what he claimed he did with REO for so many years. It sure does make sense. I do that to this day. I take a lot of the stuff that he did and try to make it that way with what I'm doing now. But we got real tight and were talking to record companies about putting out an album. We basically settled with Crescendo Records, which at that time wasn't the greatest, but it definitely opened up the doors for different things. It could have been a lot better if there was more promotion done. We worked hard on the songs. The songs are good.

Q - In between gigs, maybe during a break in rehearsals, did Gary ever talk to you about the early days of REO?

A - Oh, all the time. I'm an encyclopedia of information when it comes to that. I mean, we were best friends. We hung out together. We were rooming together when we were on the road. I was very close with him. He told me a lot of stuff. That might come out one day, but at this time I'm still trying to keep my career going for myself. (laughs) So, there is a book to follow. Gary was the sound of REO in my opinion. Once you take the guitar out of there it's not the same. I was fortunate enough to hear the difference. It as unbelievable. When he strapped it (the guitar) on it was unbelievable how that guy could play his guitar.

Q - Did you sense any bitterness from Gary that he was no longer part of REO?

A - I could sense there was a lot of stuff going on there. Yeah, there was bitterness. That's for sure. At the time when this hiatus happened with Kevin (Cronin), from my understanding Kevin was doing a solo deal and Gary thought he was taking over REO Speedwagon. When he started working with me, that was one of the reasons I was doing demos with him. I don't know what happened after that. Whatever happened, happened. Gary wasn't sure what Kevin was doing and then Kevin basically went the other route and Gary got pushed out of the band. It was absolutely a shame and it devastated Gary and I think that's one of the reasons Gary had such a hard time. Even though he was very happy that he was in control of our band, the Richrath band, but it wasn't the same obviously. For twenty-three years he was in a band that he built. He's got more of a following than anybody. It's amazing. People love that guy. He just had the heart and soul of REO Speedwagon. That's what I've been trying to capture with the guys that I'm playing with now. Even though Gary's not here recording this new album, it was literally like he was here because I took all the demo tapes we worked on and digitally put 'em in so we could capture all that, otherwise we had a lot of stuff on analog tape that we had to salvage and then we played it back and these are just some of the things that worked out wonderful. He was literally like playing in the studio.

Q - You're fortunate you could do that, not only for yourself, but for the fans as well.

A - Yeah, and I've been getting a wonderful response out of that too.

Q - You're getting ready to go out on the road in a couple of months (January 2022). This year (2021) you've spent your time then putting the "L.A. Is Mine" CD together?

A - Yeah. We did some shows, but we had to take a break for awhile because some of the shows were getting canceled because of COVID, and then I got sick. When I got sick I just decided to take it easy because I've got too much going on. So, we just put off everything that we had lined up 'til January, and January '22 will be our year to try and push as hard as possible. The music business and the entertainment business has been tough no matter how you look at it. It was an honor working with Gary and being part of that whole thing. I appreciate you taking the time to talk with me. That means a lot, and let's get this thing going so we can get this world back to normal.

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