Gary James' Interview With Jay Jay French Of
Twisted Sister



He was one of the founding members of Twisted Sister. Along the way he's also been a manager and a record producer. He authored a book titled Twisted Business: We're Not Gonna Take It Anymore. He is a contributing editor to Goldmine magazine where he writes a column titled "Now We're Sixty Four"! He writes a music column called Twisted Systems for an online music publication called Copper. And, he's also a motivational speaker. Is this guy busy or what? Jay Jay French, Twisted Sister's guitarist, took some time off from a very demanding schedule to talk to us.

Q - I'll start off by asking you some questions about what you're doing today before I dig into your past and Twisted Sister's past. Are you a motivational speaker along the lines of say Tony Robbins?

A - Are you asking me do I consider myself as good as Tony Robbins or are you asking me am I as busy as Tony Robbins? What's the question?

Q - I'm not asking you to compare yourself to Tony Robbins. I'm just asking if you provide positive inspiration to the audiences you speak to. I use Tony Robbins only because he's probably the most famous.

A - I have a book called Twisted Business and the structure of the book is that it's a book about re-invention. I speak to people about tools for re-invention. So, the focus is the Twisted Focus of re-invention. It's a very simple way of remembering about what I'm talking about, like power points. It's very simple. It's seven words: Tenacity, Wisdom, Inspiration, Stability, Trust, Excellence and Discipline. That's the foundation by which Twisted Sister became successful and I illustrate why it became successful using those seven rules of the road and I give examples of how we confronted our success. Look, the lessons are about business. It's not the music business. It's just about business in general. In fact, I've had people tell me it's actually a blue print for life, not just business.

Q - You're mainly drawing from your experience in Twisted Sister then?

A - My experience in life. It's the first official Bizoire. It's a business book and memoir. Most business people who write books essentially write bizoires because their philosophies of life are drawn from their experiences in life. That is exactly how Twisted Sister succeeded, although my whole thing started out because I was a drug dealer as a teenager and I kind of took what I learned from that and transformed it after I stopped doing drugs. I kind of used the same formula on Twisted Sister. I was a street dealer, a street hustler. Most entrepreneurs tend to be that. Most entrepreneurs have crazy histories. Certainly most of the malicious people in America started off as bootleggers back in the '20s. So, you kind of learn how to deal with the street. You learn how to deal with people. Communication is the key to all of it, the ability to withstand multiple setbacks is the key which is why tenacity is the first letter for the Twisted method. Essentially Twisted Sister was turned down more times than a bed sheet in a whorehouse and came back more times than Freddy Kruger. In there lies a tale on survival and re-invention. That's what I'm hired to talk about.

Q - Where did this word of yours "Bizoire" come from?

A - It's a phrase I created. I was asked what kind of book it was going to be. I was asked, "Are you writing a memoir?" I said, "Not Exactly." "Are you writing a business book?" "Not exactly." "Well, what are you writing?" "Well, it's a business book and a memoir. It's a memoir that morphs into a business book." So, I came up with "bizoire".

Q - I actually saw Twisted Sister in November of 1983 at a club in Syracuse, N.Y. called The Lost Horizon. Do you remember that club, the one at that time anyway that had a pole in the center of the stage?

A - Well, I've played 9,000 shows and for the most part out of those 9,000, I probably remember a couple of hundred at best. That one specifically I can't say because there were probably 30 clubs with poles in the center. I can't necessarily say I do remember it. That was at a time when we were still playing smaller venues. We couldn't play arenas yet.

Q - As I said, that was November 1983. Two months later Twisted Sister was headlining 10,000 seat hockey arenas. That went on for two years? 1984 maybe into 1985?

A - We didn't headline. We were opening for Dio in arenas already in '83. In '84 we did the huge tour with (Iron) Maiden and then we went on to headline. Then it just became arena after arena everywhere. They just tend to blend into each other over time.

Q - How long did all of that last?

A - '84, '85, '86, '87. Up to the end of '87.

Q - That was longer than I thought. The next time I heard anything about Twisted Sister I heard about Dee Snyder testifying in front of the P.M.R.C in Washington, D.C. I thought it was a publicity stunt on his part to draw more attention to the band.

A - Well, the band was in the middle of its popularity, so why you didn't know that is something I can't really speak to. It happened at the epicenter of everything. We had super successful records out. Then we were attacked by several politicians and decided we were the worst things that ever happened to the music industry. Laws were passed to keep us out down South and we were chased all down South from arena to arena by police. Eventually we were arrested for obscenity. That all happened in the middle of everything. That didn't happen in a vacuum. It didn't happen at our lowest popularity. We were gigantic at the time when all of that went down. That's why Dee got so much publicity with that and Frank Zappa and I believe John Denver. The whole thing was a political witch hunt. It was a sham set up for political reasons. It was all nonsense. But, if there are cynics out there who wish to believe it was to promote a product, well, there will always be that. I mean sure, anyone can state that if they want. Dee admitted to Congress that we were a straight band. We didn't do drugs and we didn't drink. We were warned not to say a word about it. We did because we didn't want people to assume that we were something we were not, but we were just a hard working band. Just a bunch of guys who just didn't drink and do drugs and didn't really like any of that whole scene. Against the wishes of our record label and booking agent who told us to shut up and don't tell people. "You don't have to tell people you do, but you don't have to tell people you don't. That will hurt your reputation." I think that's one of the more curious aspects of my business. It's like if you're a politician and you're found in a hotel room with a 16 year old girl and cocaine, you're pretty much done. If you're a sports star and found in a hotel room with a young girl, you're done. But, I guess if you're a Heavy Metal band and you're found in a hotel room with a young girl and cocaine, they name a building after you and give you like a Grammy. It's a very strange world where we're allowed to remain basically infantile for the rest of our lives, and that's not how Twisted was. Twisted was a very hard working bunch of guys. That was our cross to bear. I don't think he really did it for publicity purposes. Why would you admit to the very thing the record label has counseled you not to talk about if it was for publicity purposes?

Q - I thought Dee was protesting against Tipper Gore and the P.M.R.C.'s efforts to place warning labels on records. I didn't realize there was such a backlash against Twisted Sister.

A - We were symbolic of the whole thing, I guess of the demonization of MTV. They just decided to make us the poster children, which is why laws were passed to keep us out of venues down South, anti-rock laws which were absurd. I wrote an editorial in Billboard about the absurdity of it. These people were passing laws saying if you performed sex with children, dead people or animals onstage, you were banned. I mean, how stupid is that? Incredibly stupid and dumb. There's not a single act in the world that I know that does that. So, they felt it would keep us out. They were stunned when promoters wouldn't cancel the shows. They couldn't believe it. "What do you mean? They have to perform sex with dead people and children." They would show up and of course we don't. "Hey, man! You guys are really good! Sorry." Meanwhile we got arrested for obscenity down in Amarillo (Texas). I think it was. It was pretty screwed up.

Q - When you were arrested were you handcuffed and taken to jail?

A - Yeah. Dee was handcuffed and taken to jail. Fingerprinted. Posted bond and eventually the whole thing was thrown out because it was absurd. They were doing it for publicity.

Q - Was it only Dee they arrested or did the whole band get arrested?

A - No. They arrested Dee.

Q - When the siege at Waco was going on in 1993, the F.B.I. decided they were going to play recordings of music to drive the people out of the compound. They played "These Boots Are Made For Walking" by Nancy Sinatra and Twisted Sister music. I suppose a lot of people thought that was funny. They were trying to drive the people crazy. Did anyone in Twisted Sister protest? Did anyone call the F.B.I. and say stop doing that?

A - I've no idea. I never knew it happened, so I can't address it. I can tell you when Noriega was at the Panamanian Embassy they were blasting Twisted Sister and Motley Crue music to try and get him out. And there were cartoons, political cartoons where they showed Twisted Sister and Motley Crue jumping out of planes singing "Shout At The Devil" or "We're Not Gonna Take It". So, we knew our music was being used at that point for political gains by the United States government, the very government that was accusing us of destroying the morality and decency of American youth. So, I didn't know it was in Waco, but it doesn't surprise me. "Were Not Gonna To Take It" has become the number one protest song in the world, used by both sides.

Q - Are you saying that nobody ever brought it up to you that Twisted Sister's music was being played at Waco?

A - Never heard about it.

Q - I'm glad I brought it up to you.

A - It doesn't matter. There's also no law. There's very particular laws about using music in public performance spaces and it's very technical. Most people just roll their eyes when you try to explain the technical aspects of it. Let's just say you're an artist and your song is being used by someone you don't like, if you don't like it you can just make a press release and say stop using it. I had no idea it was being used there. I would've been interested. Wow! Really? That's pretty interesting.

Q - But, you wouldn't have called someone up then and said "We didn't write that song to drive someone crazy? It's a Rock song".

A - Well yeah, but you can say that about any song in the world. You can use anybody's song for any reason. If an artist isn't objecting to its use then certainly an artist can make a statement whether they like it or not. We had no idea. I had zero idea it was being used. That's interesting. It certainly never made it to the papers up here. Otherwise, I would have been asked about it. I was never asked and I don't think Dee was. My earliest recollection of the song being used politically was, besides trying to get Noriega out of the Embassy, was the Swift Boat soldiers who were going against John Kerry. They made a video of "Were Not Gonna Take It". That was the first time I had ever been asked about its use.

Q - Film maker Andrew Horn made a movie about Twisted Sister, We Are Twisted Fucking Sitster. I didn't see the film. What does that film contain? Rare concert footage? Interviews with band members?

A - The documentary he started because I was in another documentary that he produced and directed. After he interviewed me for that documentary I told him about Twisted Sister and he became fascinated about the story. The more he did research, the more he became interested in how we made it, not that we made it, not that we became successful after "We're Not Gonna Take It". The documentary is just about the first ten years of the band. It ends when we sign a record deal with Atlantic. So, it ends before any of the hit records. It's a very different documentary. It tells a story that needs to be told.

Q - You saw a lot of bands at the old, now defunct Fillmore East. Were you taking notes on the bands you saw, like Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley, critiquing in your mind what they were doing right or wrong so you could apply it to a group you would form one day?

A - I have no idea what they did. I only know I saw hundreds and hundreds of artists and I remember thinking. I like this. I don't like that. This is great. In my own mind I was trying to keep that in mind. I didn't go there forensically to study like a professor. But, I certainly saw an unbelievable amount of great artists in their prime. I was able to conceptualize and verbalize and expound on my opinions of those artists and what they meant to me.

Q - Speaking of Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley, were you in this band Wicked Lester in 1972 with those two guys?

A - Nope. I auditioned for that band like a million other people did and that was it. It was an audition. It lasted a couple of weeks and they never called back. That's all I ever said it was. It was just that they happened to get my phone number. They called me. I went and hung out, played a couple of days together, jammed a bit and that was it. That was in June of '72. They eventually hired Paul Frehley, Ace Frehley, but Paul then, in September of '72. They called me and asked if I wanted to come down and watch the new band. I went to the lofts and probably heard their very first performance. I was there with their producer Ron Johnson, who produced Wicked Lester. So, I heard them with Ace and I was like, "Wow! Great!"

Q - In the early days of Twisted Sister you guys were performing six nights a week, doing five 45 sets a night. That's the difference between back then and today. Bands today don't get that apprenticeship do they?

A - No. The greatest example I can give you is I talk to kids who are 20 years old. They ask me advice. I ask them how long their band has been together. A couple years. I go, "How many shows have you played in those two years?" They'll usually tell me 30, 40, 50 shows tops. From the first 30 months of Twisted Sister's existence from March '73 to September '75, we played 3,450 shows. So, there's the difference.

Q - That's a lot of shows.

A - A lot of shows. By the time we were signed we were probably at 7,000. That's what you did. You worked all the time. You learned your craft. That is not what you do today. Does that matter? That would be a different question. I would like to think it matters, by learning your craft and playing a lot, you learn a lot of the things you need to learn to make it. If you go to a Classical concert and look at the First Chair violinist, they didn't just practice for two weeks. They've probably been playing eight hours a day for fifteen years. Most people won't do that. Most people aren't going to do that. There were the rules for us to be great. And so we followed those rules.

Q - And yet, Justin Bieber didn't struggle for years and years on the club circuit. His mother posted a video of him on the Internet and he was seen by a manager. Dionne Warwick didn't play the club circuit. She sang in church.

A - See, that's the difference. She had a church background, which meant she performed a lot and she sang a lot. Churches are very demanding locations. Say what you want about religions. Some of the greatest singers and musicians come out of churches. The discipline that churches make you undergo are fascinating. How many great singers were Gospel singers? How many great Southern musicians came out of church? You go to Nashville and you see nothing but phenomenal musicians. You don't see that in New York or L.A. New York and L.A. you can say musicians suck every day of the week, but you don't see 'em suck down South. There's a certain criteria. I don't know what it is, something in the water. I don't know if it's the establishment of a certain expectation within the confines of a church, but if you're not really good, you're done. They don't accept mediocrity. So, I always found that church taught musicians are unbelievably disciplined. They've gone through a filtration system, like if you're not good enough, get out of here. You're not going to do it. So, they're great, which means they've sung in a million church revivals. So they've done their job. You don't have to be in a club necessarily. You just have to do it and you have to have good mentors. I don't know how many times Aretha Franklin sang before she signed her record deal. I can assume she sang for years in churches, okay? I can assume Sam Cooke sang for years in the confines of a church. That's what these people do when they're young. Then they're cultivated in the system to speak so authoritatively about it, but I will say there's a commonality of quality of exceptional quality and performances that especially African-American musicians have in the United States and its directly associated with the church. But having said that, there's also plenty of White musicians too that came through their own churches and the demands of excellence are there, and that's why the musicians are so great. So again, this is not a religious conversation. It's about the system they evolve into great talent of musicianship. It seems they come out of that world. That world tells me when you enter that world and these places they demand excellence. You gotta be good!

Q - With Country music it almost seems like you have to be from the South. They're steeped in the Southern tradition which can be found in the music.

A - Not just that, they know great musicianship. You're not allowed to suck in Nashville my friend. You're just not allowed to. I think it's against the law. It's like you go to any bar in Nashville and you see the most ridiculously great players. I love going to the honkey tonks in Nashville. It doesn't matter where you go, you can see a brother sister act at the airport singing in like a Friendly's or something, 15 years old. You know what? They sound like Faith Hill and Tim McGraw. They're great. I've never seen a bad singer or performer play publicly in Nashville, man. You can't! The demands in Nashville are exceptionally high.

Q - I never realized that besides being in the band, you were also pulling managerial duties.

A - I never got in the business to be a manager. I got into the business to be a Rock star. However, in my book I illustrate the transformation, how it all turned around. My natural inclination is as a business person. I'm not a musician who's a business person, I'm a business person who's a musician. I'm a business person who happens to know how to play guitar. I'm not a natural musician under any circumstances. Whatever I dreamed I thought it was going to be like, it turned out to be nothing like that. It was a long road. I wound up in places I could never have anticipated.

Q - Wasn't Mark Puma, a promoter, the manager of Twisted Sister for a while?

A - He was one of several people I brought in to assist me or take over at certain times.

Q - What kind of a job did he do for the band?

A - He was there at a pivotal time. He did a good job. I have my issues and my history and perspective of what he could have done better.

Q - I got into a discussion with that guy once about KISS. He said "Beth" was a hit record because of KISS's stage show. I said when the record is played on the radio you can't see the group's stage show.

A - And, your point is?

Q - The song is in the grooves! That's what people are responding to!

A - It's two things. They laid the groundwork. They played in front of hundreds of thousands of people at that point. So, they just needed to light a match. Ballads are the cheapest way to light the match. I'm not saying the song isn't good, it's just the cheapest way to go do it. The way every Heavy Metal band is promoted is two Hard Rock songs and then the ballad. Everyone's got the ballad. And the ballad breaks it out and makes it happen. It wasn't the first single KISS released. It was the biggest single they released until they did "I Was Made For Lovin' You", the Disco song. That was also popular. But, there were a lot of elements going on there, not the least of which is they established themselves as a hot live act. In '76 they were huge already. So, it doesn't surprise me. They hit the right track. Look, Motley Crue, "Home Sweet Home". Everyone's got their gimmick ballad. Sometimes it bites you in the ass and destroys your career like it did for Extreme. "More Than Words" destroyed their career and they're a great band. That was promoted before they were legitimately understood to be a Hard Rock act. Then people misunderstood and thought that's what they were. Those things can bite you in the ass if you're marketed incorrectly, whereas Foreigner, "I Want To Know What Love Is" was like their 10th single. They'd already established themselves with "Feels Like The First Time" and "Cold As Ice" and all those other songs. When they released that track it was within the context of a career. It only enhanced it.

Q - There still is a Twisted Sister today?

A - Yes.

Q - And the demand for bookings for Twisted Sister is coming from where? Is it the U.S. or overseas?

A - I could play tomorrow in front of 100,000 people in Europe if I wanted, or South America. So, that's really where it stems from. But we retired, but we could do it tomorrow if we wanted to. It's huge. I wanted to call it a day in 2016. It had been many, many years. We're about to hit our 50th Anniversary in December (2022). That's a long time. And I will say if you look at the five big bands that came out of '73, Twisted, Aerosmith, Judas Priest, AC/DC and KISS, we all basically began in '73. If you look at the five of us, if you were to ask any of us how long we think we would have lasted as a band, we probably would have said five years. Here we are 50 years later. Priest is on the road. KISS is on the road. Aerosmith is on the road. AC/DC can be on the road. The difference between Twisted and the rest of ‘em? Here's the difference, if you ask a 10 year old kid to sing a KISS song he's not gonna know it. Ask ‘em to sing a Priest song and he's probably not going to know it. Ask him to sing "We're Not Gonna Take It" and he's going to sing "We're Not Gonna Take It". And the reason why is we changed our focus into a marketing, licensing business and we make sure our music is out there. That's why Discover Card licensed it this year (2022) and T-Mobile licensed it this year and Facebook licenses our music, Rachel Ray. We just do national licensing deals. That's the key. Twisted Sister's music is known by more people because we aggressively license our music. That's the important thing. So, my book Twisted Business is available on Amazon. It's a great book. I have a podcast which is the Jay Jay French Connection on Apple, Podcast One and Spotify. And I write for two Magazines, Goldmine magazine, I write a Beatle column for Goldmine, and I write an audio column for Copper which is also available online through a company called PS Audio/Copper. I happen to write music stories, columns for them. So, there you have it. You've got all of it.

Official Website: www.TwistedSister.com

© Gary James. All rights reserved.



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