Gary James' Interview With
Kiki Dee
At 16 she signed her first recording contract. She was the very first female singer to be signed to Tamla Mowtown Records. In 1974 she recorded "I've Got The Music In Me", which became a Billboard #12 hit. Two years later, a duet with Elton John resulted in a number one hit in the U.S., Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland and Italy. That song, that record, was "Don't Go Breaking My Heart". The singer we are talking about is Kiki Dee.
Q - From reading your bio, I get the feeling that working as a duo with (Carmelo) is more rewarding than working in a band.
A - Yeah.
Q - You say, "It felt great to have the freedom of working with just a voice and guitar and writing songs while on the road." So, a band is a hassle and a duo is pleasurable?
A - I don't think it's that black and white really. I think I've just reached that point. I'd done so much up 'til that point. I started recording in '63. I guess I got to the point where I wanted more freedom to write and do what I wanted to do rather than chasing the hit songs. It's just a little bit more about being self-expressed, the singer and the songwriter. So, it kind of suited me. It was all about the timing.
Q - At the present time (2020) since there is no road work, is that what you're doing, writing songs?
A - Yeah. We've got ten new tracks for an album next year to get things organized that you don't normally do when you're traveling a lot.
Q - Do you remember when you wrote your first song?
A - Well, I do actually because it was the early '70s. I'd just hooked up with Elton John on the Rocket Records label. He was the one that said, "You ought to try writing." So, it was about the end of '72 and he sent me some albums. He sent me a Jackson Browne album. I can't remember which one. I always liked him as a singer/songwriter. Yeah, I remember it very well. It's quite hard work. It's quite painful to write. I think it has a soul that song because even today it's very popular with people who like my music.
Q - Painful because you personalize your songs? Can you be inspired by something you see or hear?
A - We'll, they usually come from some sort of experience I felt or had. But, it was the first song I'd ever written. It was a bit of a unknown. I wanted to get the lyric the way I wanted it. It was a very simple song actually called "Loving And Free". It was name of the album that Elton produced on Rocket Records in '73. To actually go through the process of trying to write a song itself was quite hard, but I played it to him and he liked it, so that was the start of it really.
Q - Rocket Records was distributed by M.C.A. Records, wasn't it?
A - I believe so.
Q - How is it Rocket could do a better promotional job for you than Tamla Motown?
A - Well, the thing is I'd gone to Motown as sort of a guest in a way. I only did the one album for them. I think they just wanted to experiment with a European singer and it just happened to be me that they invited over there for twelve weeks. I worked with Frank Wilson, who produced me. He had one of the early hits on Motown. The title is not coming to mind at the moment. I'm sure someone out there will remember it. ("Do I Love You (Indeed I Do)") I worked with him in the original studio, which is now the Motown Museum of course. The project itself I suppose didn't take off commercially. It was a very special thing to have done in my life, now that I look back on it. I'd grown up as a Motown fan. I was only 21 when I went over there. I'd been a big fan of all the singles. So yeah, I was very flattered that they should invite me over there.
Q - I guess you got to meet all the Motown stars of the day then?
A - I met quite a few people. I met Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder. It doesn't get better than that, does it?
Q - How about Diana Ross?
A - I never met Diana Ross. I met Martha Reeves. As I say, I was there for a limited time. I knew Jimmy Ruffin 'cause he used to come over to the U.K. So, I ran into Stevie of course, a few times over the years when he'd turn up at Elton concerts. I actually ran into Marvin Gaye when he was recording "Sexual Healing" in London in the early '80s. So that was nice. But like I say, for a Yorkshire girl from the north of England who started out I suppose with a reputation as a Soul singer, it was quite something to be invited over there.
Q - While the duo was touring you would play in small, village halls and then go to Albert Hall. How was it possible to make any money in a small village hall?
A - You're talking about Carmelo and I. It was in the mid-'90s that I hooked up with a producer/guitarist called Carmelo Luggeri. We made quite a few unusual albums. One was very East/West with Indian tablas and strings. We'd play anywhere they'd want us. (laughs) We'd play mostly art centers in the U.K. Sometimes we'd go over to Amsterdam. I kind of just started doing my thing Gary and was just out there playing my music. I got to the age where I wanted to kind of be more self-expressive.
Q - You sang backup vocals on Dusty Springfield records. Did you sing on "I Only Want To Be With You"?
A - No, I didn't sing on that one. I sang on quite a few. I sang on a lovely Carole King song called "Some Of Your Loving" that she did. I thought she did a beautiful vocal on that. I also sang on "Little By Little", one of her early singles. I used to do the odd live appearance as a backing vocalist, back in the '60s this was. I was 18 years old and getting a chance to sing with Dusty Springfield was quite something.
Q - Besides Dusty, did you sing background vocals for anyone else?
A - Yes. I met Robert Plant about four years ago. (2016). He came to one of our acoustic shows. I didn't know until after the show. I'm really glad I didn't know he was there because I'm a bit of a fan. I love the album he made with Alison Krauss about ten years ago called "Raising Sand". Anyway, it turned out I'd done some backing vocals for him in 1865 on a song called "You Better Run". So, that was interesting. I'd forgotten about it. But, I sung also on a song called "Ever Lasting Love" by Love Affair, a British band. I think it was a worldwide hit. It was just a way of making a living before I had any hit records and before people knew who I was.
Q - You were performing with a band or your band in Leeds in 1963. How far is Leeds from Liverpool?
A - Well, Leeds is a fairly big city actually. It's next door to Bradford, where I was born. I came from the industrial north. A lot of textiles were woven in that area. From Liverpool I guess it's about an hour and a half drive.
Q - And London?
A - London is a three and a half hour drive. It's such a small country. It's not too far really.
Q - Does that mean you were hearing about the music coming out of Liverpool and/or London? If not on the radio, were you reading about it in the newspaper?
A - Well, you know what was so fantastic for me was, I was 16 years old and I went down to London to audition for Fontana/Phillips Records. I passed the audition. I went down with my dad. We drove down and stayed in a bed and breakfast place in North London. It was in 1963, just when everything British was kicking off in the world. The British music scene was going crazy. The film industry, the whole '60s vibe was happening and it was such an exciting time for a teenager to hit the big city.
Q - And so you heard about The Beatles and The Rolling Stones then?
A - Yeah. I remember hearing "Love Me Do" on the radio and thinking, "What is this? This is different." My music partner, Carmelo, always says, "You turned professional as a singer very young, but you arrived at such an incredible time to be doing music where everything was new in the Pop world. It's a whole new innovation going on."
Q - He's right about that. You were there at the right time.
A - Yeah. It was very interesting.
Q - You were signed to Fontana Records as a solo artist.
A - That's the audition I did. Yeah.
Q - Fontana Records had Wayne Fontana And The Mindbenders and The Troggs. Why didn't the label sign your band as a whole?
A - Well, I didn't actually have a band at that time. I didn't really have a band until I did a stint with a band on Rocket Records in the '70s. We did two American tours with Elton and toured all around Europe. I remember playing The Roxy in Los Angeles with this band. So, just for that brief period I had my own band.
Q - The Roxy always had the major Rock stars of the day as their customers.
A - Yeah.
Q - Led Zeppelin. David Bowie.
A - Well, I remember it was really a magical gig. It must've been about '74, '75. I know Bonnie Raitt was there and afterward she came up and said, "Kiki, I'll never see you again," which was such a sweet thing to say. She's such a great singer. So, I took that as a huge compliment. I think we'd been on the road for a long time and we were very fluid. We'd been playing a lot and it turned out to be a good night.
Q - Mitch Murray gave you this name Kiki Dee. Your original name was Pauline Matthews.
A - That's right. (laughs)
Q - Pauline Matthews is a nice name. Did you like Kiki Dee?
A - Well, the thing was, it was the fashion at the time. It's hard for people to believe now that the record company wanted people to have a catchy name. Everything at the time was Kinky Boots. Just very kooky and kinky. That was a very '60s saying and they came up with it. It took me a few years to grow into the name, but I kind of got used to it. It's quite nice having a name that's quite unusual. My mother was going to call me Rita, which I quite like. It's a nice name. My sister was called Betty. I love that name. Pauline is kind of okay.
Q - The story goes that Dusty Springfield was sick the day Elton John was going to record "Don't Go Breaking My Heart", so you were asked to sing on that record. Do you ever wonder if not for a quirk of fate, what that record would have sounded like if Dusty Springfield had been able to sing that day?
A - Well, do you know this is a story that I've heard and I suspect it's from a theatre show that was done on Dusty in the last five years. It's very hard to believe that story is true because I'd been on the label for three years and Elton had produced two albums for me at the time. It was a small label. It wasn't actually going to be a duet. It was going to be one of Elton's songs that Bernie and Elton wrote. It was Gus Dudgeon who produced my track, "I've Got The Music In Me", who suggested to Elton that I should do it as a duet with him. I'm a huge Dusty Springfield fan, but I don't quite know where that story arose. I don't know where it came from. So, in answer to your question, I don't think it was ever going to be the way you heard it was.
Q - And of course, I just have to ask, have you had your heart broken along the way?
A - Oh, many times. (laughs)
Q - How many hearts do you think you've broken?
A - Quite a lot. Probably about an equal amount actually. My mother always told me I was picky. (laughs)
Q - Nothing wrong with that.
A - Yeah. I think it's part of growing up, isn't it? You've got to get your heart broken. I was talking to a friend of mine whose got a daughter in her mid-twenties, and it's so hard not to want to wrap them in cotton wool and protect them from any kind of pain, young people. But, we all have to go through our journey, don't we? It's part of growing up. That's the way it goes.
Official Website: www.KikiAndCarmelo.com
© Gary James. All rights reserved.
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