Gary James' Interview With
Tom Chapin



He's a singer. He's a songwriter. He's a musician. He's an advocate for ending world hunger. He's the younger brother of Harry Chapin. His name is Tom Chapin. We spoke with Tom about his musical career, his efforts to end global hunger, and about his brother, Harry.

Q - Tom, as I understand it, you occasionally appear in Harry Chapin Tribute concerts with your brother Steve. Where do you perform?

A - Well, we got a call from an agent who booked us awhile ago, and she said, "The only thing that's really selling these days in a lot of places is tribute bands, and you guys are the ultimate tribute band." (laughs) It's not just us, it's really the Chapin family, my daughters Abigail and Lily Chapin, the Chapin Sisters, and Harry's daughter Jan and her trio with her husband, Stefan Krump and the great Jazz guitar player, Jamie Fox. So, it's really like four bands. So, it's me backed up by the Harry Chapin band. The Harry Chapin band is my brother, Steve and Big John Wallace, the high voice in "Taxi" and the low voice in "Mr. Tanner". And Howard Fields, who is the only drummer Harry ever had. And then a roving cellist. And John Wallace's son, Clark Wallace. And we've been doing twelve or thirteen concerts a year in the last year or so. It's hard to get us all together. My daughter has small kids and Jen is a full-time teacher in Brooklyn. She teaches Social Studies. To get us together we try to work out three shows in a row. A couple of weeks ago we played three that were all driveable in New London, Connecticut, Tarrytown, New York and Eastern Pennsylvania. We did three in the Mid-West. And the shows are just wonderful. I've been singing Harry's songs occasionally in my own shows forever, but when you sing with the Harry Chapin band and Steve and John and Howie and the crew and the cellist, you realize those wonderful arrangements they came up with for "Taxi", "Cat's In The Cradle" and "Mr. Tanner", all these songs are just great.

Q - You also did something called "Harry Chapin's Greatest Stories Live". Was that just one show?

A - Last year we just named it something different and with some different stories. This year it's been "The Greatest Stories Live". December, 1974 was when "Cat's In The Cradle" was number one in all three charts. I remember getting a call from Harry in the middle of the night, he was touring someplace. He calls and says, "Tom, 'Cats' is number one on all three charts." I said, "Wow! Congratulations." He said, "You know what I'm thinking?" I said, "What?" He said, "How do I follow it?" (laughs) That's the life of a performer and a recording artist. "What's in it for me?" (laughs)

Q - He knew that if the hits don't keep coming he won't have a recording contract.

A - Oh, sure.

Q - Did you ever sing with Harry onstage?

A - We started as The Chapin Brothers. I was 12, Steve was 11 and Harry was 14. Steve and I had been choir boys. We played Classical instruments. I played clarinet. Steve played piano. Harry played trumpet. One summer, the summer of 1958, we heard a recording called "The Weavers At Carnegie Hall". They really started the Folk revival in America. That recording had been done in 1955 after they had been blacklisted for ten years. Their manager, Howard Levonthal said, "I think it's time." He rented Carnegie Hall and sold out in two hours. They taped that and released it on Vanguard Records. And it changed American music because The Kingston Trio heard it. Peter, Paul And Mary heard it. And The Limeliters. And Tom Paxton. It galvanized a whole group of people, including the Chapin Brothers. We listened to that recording all summer long and Harry said, "We can do that." He's 14. I'm 12. Steve's 11. And he got a guitar. Actually he had a banjo. It was sitting in my grandma's basement. It had been her brother's from 1910. An old banjo. He got it fixed up, started taking lessons and got the Pete Seeger book. I got a guitar and we became The Chapin Brothers. Steve first played a ten string ukulele and then moved on to bass. For the next ten years we terrorized the neighborhood. (laughs) We lived in the center of Folk music in America, Brooklyn Heights, but we were fifteen minutes away from The Village. So, we were really close and could go over there and hear people and learn things. We just fell in love with making music together. That's long answer to your question. We were always onstage with Harry.

Q - Were you onstage with him after he became a recording artist?

A - Sure. We did many benefits. Harry was always doing benefits. Half or maybe even more than half of his concerts were benefits. And, I was his benefit man. Once he did a Broadway show called The Night That Made America Famous. It didn't run very long, but it was Broadway. So, it was in New York City and we lived there. I was his understudy and I was in the band. And Steve and I were the Music Directors. After that happened, I toured with him for almost six months, five or six months. That's when he got a drummer and that was Howard. The original group was just Harry on guitar, John Wallace on bass, Ron Palmer on electric guitar and Tim Scott on cello. It was a quartet. But, after the Broadway show he started using drums. I was with him for about six months and I said I didn't really like being the opening act and the younger brother in that situation. So, I want on my own. I already had a record and TV show, Make A Wish. Being part of the Harry band was wonderful for awhile, but just for awhile.

Q - I saw Harry in concert and The Landmark Theatre. I believe it was 1979, 1980, and he was late. When he came down the aisle of the theatre the audience just erupted into cheers. He didn't even have time to change. He went on in his street clothes.

A - Harry was chronically late. He was always doing other stuff. He was not only being a Rock star, but he was also in and out of Washington (DC), working on the hunger issue. He was serious about it. After he started WHY Hunger, then called World Hunger in 1975, those five or five and a half years before he died I was his Benefit man. It was too expensive to bring in the big band to a of those places. You're doing 'em solo and six months you come back and do a show. He used to call me up and say, "Playing in Thunder Bay, Ontario and Kitchener, Ontario. I've got three dates. Do you want to come with me? What are you doing this weekend?" He'd pay a little bit of money to make a living and I'd go out and play with him as well as my own gigs, but it was great. I never realized how important it would be for me after he died because we just had so many good times together, the two of us.

Q - I remember Harry performing on Johnny Carson. After his performance, Johnny invited him to come over and talk. I left the room for a minute and my mother called to me and said, "Do you know who this guy is? Have you ever heard of him? He says he's getting $10,000 to perform at the Air Force Academy."

A - (laughs)

Q - Was that a big paying gig for Harry at that point in his career?

A - $10,000. It really depends. In the later part of his life he was making at least that. But the amazing thing is, he comes out of high school and gets into the Air Force Academy. That was the second or third year of the Air Force Academy. It was very tough. He went thru the summer and he decided, "I don't want to do this." The Vietnam War was going on and so he tried to get out of it, the Air Force Academy. And famously they made it very hard on him once they knew he was quitting, the Upperclassmen. But, the Chaplin sat him down and said, "Harry, if you're not successful at this, you're never going to be successful at anything in your life." So, Harry gets a chance to go back and play at the Air Force Academy and tell that story and the entire audience jumped up. Seldom do you have those moments like, "Oh Yeah? Really?" (laughs)

Q - Has anyone ever asked you about Harry's appearance on Carson that night?

A - I don't know about that one. The first time he appeared on Carson was very famous because he played "Taxi". They didn't know who he was and the crowd goes nuts and they go to commercial and they come back and the audience is still clapping. He asked Harry to come back the next night. And that had never happened before. That's the one I remember. That song is just so unique and it's like an opera as well as a great short story. What a wonderful song. You hear that song and you'll never forget it.

Q - Harry had to be pretty smart to get into the Air Force Academy. They didn't just let anybody in.

A - Harry was a bright guy. He had some good scholarships to Cornell and my grandma was an educator. She was the head of every department for fifty years in George Washington High School in New York City. One of her students was Jacob Javits, the Senator. She was an incredible woman. Anyway, she called and just got him his scholarships, which is amazing. He went to Cornell and a couple of years later flunked out and he went back to Cornell and flunked out again. (laughs)

Q - He was meant for show business.

A - That's exactly right.

Q - Do you know how long it took him to write "Taxi" and "Cats In The Cradle"?

A - Well, every song is a different animal. The short answer is no. We all write. "Cats In The Cradle", the story is it was a poem that Sandy (Harry's wife) wrote. He took that and made it into a song, made it rhyme, made it into the great melody. "Taxi", he was working in documentary films and he couldn't get a job during the first Nixon recession. He was living in the city (New York City) and he needed an apartment. So, he needed a job. So, he took out a taxi licence in New York City. He was supposed to drive at midnight on Monday. This is Friday and he got the licence. All weekend he's thinking what happens if my old girlfriend, Claire gets in the car? Claire was from Scarsdale, New York. Her parents had always said, "Never take the subway. Never take a bus. Take a cab." So, she always took taxis and we were city boys so we took everything. He was a big dreamer. He had all these stories that he told his girlfriend and they broke up. He thought, "What would happen if Claire flags me down and sees me doing this?" Well, on Monday he got a couple of job offers in documentary films and, being Harry, he took them both and never drove a cab. But, in his mind the whole scenario was there in front of him. What happens if this guy is driving and he makes it in 'Frisco (San Francisco) instead of New York. He invents this whole world and there it was. Boom!

Q - You sat on the Board Of Directors for WHY Hunger.

A - Yup.

Q - Tom, why is there still hunger? What's the roadblock here? Is there a short answer to this problem?

A - Yup. It's food justice, who controls the food. If you have money, you eat. If you don't, you might not. And to Harry, that was the ultimate injustice, that there's plenty of food to feed the world, but it's about poverty. It's about food justice. And that's really where it's at. He was trying to get the government to change that dynamic so there's never a hungry child again. I remember the great troubles happening in Ireland back in the 1800s. England wouldn't let Ireland grow food. They grew stuff to deport. People weren't feeding their own. And that's still the way it is. The wonderful thing about WHY Hunger is to try and change that dynamic. The good news is we do wonderful work. You can go on their website, WHYHunger.org and see what we're doing. But, the bad news is it's still here. It is a solvable problem. But, it's making it obvious and making people want to do it.

Q - When someone like Harry is not around to bring media attention to this problem, who takes his place? I don't see anyone. Do you?

A - No. There's plenty who do small amounts, but nobody as committed and vocal as Harry. He was a remarkable guy. He was a leader. I came up with, "Two's company. Harry's a crowd." (laughs) He was that kind of character. He'd walk into a room and say, "Ill tell what we'll do..." Not everybody's cut out to do that. But, there's lots of people who have done really wonderful work in helping us over the years and continue to do it. The deal is, you go toward the light. You be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Q - Peter Coan wrote a book on Harry and I take it the Chapin family wasn't too happy with that book. What was your objection to it?

A - I was not in the loop at all. The story I heard was the day Harry died they walk upstairs and Sandy finds him going through Harry's desk and taking things. This is Peter Coan. She got upset with him and would never talk to him again. That's what I heard. I don't know if it's true. I was involved with my own life and not Harry's. I'm his brother, but I was also touring and doing TV shows and various things over the years. I have my own career. I have twenty-seven albums and three Grammys and eight Grammy nominations and I've been doing this a long time. I love Harry. I love talking about him, but I don't know all the little intricacies.

Q - So, when you're not doing tribute concerts and working on Why Hunger, you're performing solo concerts then?

A - My full life is mostly that, working on various things. I'm working on a couple of new things right now. There was a period when I was doing mostly family music in the '90s. That's when I got all the Grammy nominations. Now that's slowed down 'cause of various things and now I sort of play the elderly folkie. People know my name and I had the TV shows. I have a name and also the Chapin name. I've had a good, quiet life as well as a career, and I'm still doing it. I'm playing this weekend at Town Crier in Beacon and doing a benefit song the next day. We've got a bunch of other things happening at various clubs and concerts. I'm turning eighty next year. (2025). People like me don't retire, we just reload. (laughs)

Q - Music keeps you interested in the world around you.

A - Well, I think the creative process does that. Music is a wonderful way to do that. You not only created the music, you write it, you record it, and then you get a chance to perform 'live' with people in a room. That's still magic to me. Tell stories. Sing songs. People are connecting with you. That was what we heard when we were twelve and heard The Weavers at Carnegie Hall. Lo and behold all these years later Papa Tom is still doing it. I wish Harry was still around. I miss him.

Official Website: www.TomChapin.com





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